They say that Joan Jonas's flat in SoHo is the last witness of the New York of the 70s: large, bright and industrial. Jonas herself is a treasure taken from another era. «I have been a strong woman. I have swum a lot, I have walked. I think that physical strength has been important. ”These days he presents his marine work at the Thyssen Museum in Madrid.

Are you having free time these days in Madrid? I have gone to the Prado. I had to go to the Prado. And to Reina Sofía. Do you remember with 22 years visiting the Louvre or the National Gallery in search of, I don't know, Rembrandt, Titian ... Sure, I was an art student and went to Europe to see art. Also to the Prado. I liked Del Prado, I like Velázquez, Goya and Tintoretto. Does historical art speak to you, does it have to do with you? All contemporary artists have some connection with ancient art. Frank Stella, for example, was also obsessed with Tintoretto. I never asked him why but I guess it had to do with the representation of space. I also feel that my work has to do with that of the old masters. In the video there is a work of composition, you have to give an order to what is inside the image. That is not different from what the painters did. Piero della Francesca is another painter in which I am looking for: the way to order the space. I guess that religious painting interests me less, but there is always something: a color, a dress ... Could you say what was the decisive moment in which your career found a meaning? I think it was very early, when I gave myself permission To think of myself as an artist. I had been a student for too long, I didn't think that my work could be important. The first pieces with mirrors were important. Then, when I went to Japan, I bought a video camera and discovered Noh theater ... that was another decisive moment. Then it was a process rather than an epiphany. It was a process, yes. I do not believe in epiphany, but in visions. It worked a lot from visions. Do visions matter more than ideas? Yes. First are the images and then the ideas. Can the visions be trained? Or propitiate them in some way? The only way to train is to study hard, read and think about the way you look. The experience of perceiving the dimensions of an image, space ... And beauty? Of course it is important. It is such an obvious word that it is difficult to define it. Beauty is sublime, it is pleasant, it is fascinating. And it's inspiring, it's generating. That includes the possibility that something we see as ugly is beautiful. Tell me now about the word "poetic." I know that it appears a lot when you talk about my work. I am not interested in the romantic sense. What interests me about poetry is its ability to structure information. Poetry is a condensed, essential message, with a structure very different from that of prose. I had studied modernist poetry and from there came much of my first work. The cinema was also very important. We go with another frequent word: "identity." Now we talk a lot about identity in social terms: female identity, class identity ... My interest was personal. My identity was that of a woman, obviously , but the conflict was with my individuality. In my first pieces I dressed up, put on masks ... I questioned my personal identity, created alter egos. And when I act, I don't feel like Joan Jonas, I can be someone different. And the word "ritual"? That is an interest that comes from my studies. I was researching art in the ancient world: Mycenae, Japan, those things ... And what I found was that art was born as an extension of ancient rites. That idea influenced me, I wanted to build art on contemporary rites. What is the difference between a piece that satisfies you and one that disappoints you? I guess disappointment has to do with insufficiently structured pieces. But it is not a definite disappointment either. Sometimes, I find works that left a bad taste in my mouth that acquire a meaning over time ... Just like there are bad films that are very inspiring. And the public? We all want to be loved but ... Sometimes you can perceive his humor, his concentration, but I can't create my pieces based on the emotions of the public. Because I can't control them. The recognition is wonderful but the passion to create does not come from that hunger. I just need to ask you about the 60s and 70s. Are you proud of that scene? Not proud. But I think it was a nuclear experience in my life. Going to New York, sharing so many things ... The friendships of that time, were they of good quality? Very good quality.

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