Trump, Mueller and the media: "It is not up to reporters to prove criminal offenses"

SPIEGEL: Is the Mueller report a debacle for the media?

Paul Farhi: It depends on what you mean by "media".

SPIEGEL ONLINE: The criticism is directed against US cable channels such as CNN and MSNBC, which often anticipated a blame Trump in the Russian affair, but also against the "Washington Post" and the "New York Times". Were the Russian investigations simply too tempting as a "great story"?

Farhi: I still think it's a great story.

SPIEGEL ONLINE : You think that the thing is not over yet?

Farhi: Special investigator Robert Mueller seems to have drawn his conclusions, but it's not up to reporters to prove crimes. Your job is to uncover facts. And Russia's coverage revealed many very important facts. Did that result in crime? We should not pretend to be a reporter.

SPIEGEL ONLINE : But many have.

Farhi: Sure, many said so and now seem to be wrong. But we should separate the information from the conclusions shown in this information. Those are two different things.

SPIEGEL ONLINE : Some have ignored this separation. Do you think there was wishful thinking? A kind of Watergate syndrome - hoping for the next big scandal?

Farhi: Yes, some commentators and columnists have drawn premature conclusions. And there were also a number of flawed reports, possibly based on wishful thinking. But with every reporting there can be mistakes. The New York Times reported very well, the Washington Post reported very well, others reported very well.

SPIEGEL ONLINE : But do not these mistakes play into the right mantra of "Fake News"?

Farhi: Of course. Everything is there. If you are a hammer, look for a nail. There is this general claim that all media are "wrong". But what do you mean by the "media"? Take what Trump spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders tweeted this week, this graphic from the "New York Post", ...

SPIEGEL: ... lists all alleged media opponents of Trump by name ...

Mueller Madness! Which of the angry and hysterical @realDonaldTrump haters got it most embarrassingly wrong? #YouDecide pic.twitter.com/IkzUesDdub

Farhi: That's a ridiculous bar, with TV talk show stars Jimmy Kimmel and Stephen Colbert on it, and actor Alec Baldwin. They are not in the same shop where I am, where you are.

SPIEGEL ONLINE : Has the story of Russia damaged the credibility of news media in general? (Read here an analysis of Trump and the Russian affair)

Farhi: It depends on the story, the reporter, the source, the depth of the coverage. The news media has a self-correcting nature, we correct wrong reporting, and over time a correct record is created. Many first drafts of the story are flawed.

SPIEGEL ONLINE : Journalists do not have to apologize, as Sarah Huckabee Sanders demands?

Farhi: I do not know who exactly should apologize and what for.

SPIEGEL: Sanders said, "Democrats and the liberal media owe an apology to the president and the American people."

Farhi: Who are these "liberal media"? If she wants Stephen Colbert to apologize, she can deal with him. I do not expect many apologies from good reporters. I'm not sure what they should apologize for.

more on the subject

OverviewWhy it goes in the Russian affair

SPIEGEL ONLINE : Should we retire the keyword "Russiagate"?

Farhi: If you mean a conspiracy from Trump, his advisers, and election workers, then Mueller would say that's no longer true. But there are many other things that fit in the rubric. So no. Ultimately, there will be a place for it. With the word Russiagate, you now only have to make the reservation that the chief investigator did not find a concrete plot to do so.

SPIEGEL ONLINE : Either way, the Russians have manipulated the US elections in 2016.

Farhi: And that's the real Russiagate. There was a conspiracy on the Russian side to interfere in the US election and direct those elections to Trump. Trump does not want to admit that. He does not want to acknowledge that, because he believes, and that's my speculation that it reduces his electoral victory.

SHAWN THEW / EPA-EFE / EX / Shutterstock

Press spokeswoman Sarah Huckabee Sanders

SPIEGEL ONLINE : Have not some journalists put too much faith in Mueller as the ultimate "savior"?

Farhi: Some people did that. Not necessarily in the press, but there were people who prayed for him and lit votive candles with his likeness. America is a very, very large country with many people and many opinions.

SPIEGEL ONLINE : Many US journalists appear in party-political colored TV shows. Do you think that would be a good idea under these circumstances?

Farhi: There are so many temptations for reporters to spread opinion. We really should resist that. Also, sometimes I get into trouble and not proud of it.

SPIEGEL ONLINE : Are not the US divided anyway, that the debate about Trump would ever end?

Farhi: There's something about that. There is an enormous polarization, many people perceive information only in their filter bubbles. The question is: Can we report correctly and fairly? What people do with it is beyond our control. Our job is to find facts and present them to people. We are not here to change opinions. We are here to say what is true.

SPIEGEL ONLINE : Do we know what is really true, what is really in the Mueller report? So far we only know the summary.

Farhi: We are very busy with these three and a half sheets. Behind it is a report of hundreds of pages, based on massive raw material. Mueller worked on it for almost two years, talking to hundreds of people and gathering vast amounts of information. This is not suitable for a three and a half-page memo. I'm not saying that this memo is right or wrong, I'm just saying that we need to see the underlying information.

AFP

Robert Mueller

SPIEGEL ONLINE : So this story will continue even in the summer.

Farhi: Oh, she'll go well beyond Trump's term. Take a look at Watergate. There are elements of Watergate that are still controversial and debated today. It takes a long time to get complex events, historical events into perspective.