The Pope returning from Kazakhstan: "Politics is a noble art. Defending yourself? Love of country"

After his 38th apostolic journey,

spent as usual the return flight that brought him back to Rome (he landed in Fiumicino shortly after 8 pm) conversing with the journalists who accompanied him to

, where he participated in the seventh meeting. of world religious leaders.

And, as often happens on more informal occasions, the Pontiff responds off the cuff, speaks spontaneously and lets himself go to memories and emotions, touching on different themes in answering the questions of the reporters: from the upcoming political elections in Italy ("Being a politician is a difficult road, you have to look for great politicians who have the ability to do politics, which is an art. It is a noble vocation ") to war in Ukraine (" Defending yourself from aggression is not only lawful but also an expression of love for la patria "), up to the arms trade and euthanasia.

"I believe that it is always difficult to understand the dialogue with the states that have started the war, and it seems that the first step was from there, from that side (from Russia,

). It is difficult but we must not discard it, we must

, everyone! "

the Pope says about the negotiations between the parties in conflict, referring mainly to the war in Ukraine. "Because there is always the possibility that in dialogue things can be changed - he adds - and also to offer another point of view, another point of consideration. I do not exclude dialogue with any power, whether it is at war, whether it is the aggressor, sometimes

must be done like this, but it must be done,

”Points out Bergoglio, with one of his typical colorful expressions.

“Always one step ahead, an outstretched hand, always!

Because on the contrary, we close the only reasonable door to peace.

Sometimes they don't accept dialogue: it's a pity!

But dialogue must always be done, at least offered, and this is good for those who offer it, it makes them breathe ”he concludes.

When asked whether it is right to

, the Pontiff responds cautiously: "It is a political decision, which can be moral, that is, morally accepted if it is done with the conditions of morality".

A decision that "can be immoral if it is made with the intention of provoking more war, or of selling weapons" adds Francis.

But one thing is clear in his eyes: “Whoever does not defend himself, whoever does not defend something, does not love it;

instead

”.

From this it follows that "Defending oneself is not only lawful, but also an

", explains the Pope.

Moving on to the theme of the "just war", the head of the Catholic Church recalls that "everyone is talking about peace today: for seventy years the United Nations has been talking about peace, making many speeches about peace.

But how many wars are going on right now?

Ukraine-Russia, now Azerbaijan and Armenia which has stopped for a while… ”Pope Francis remembers.

“Then there is Syria - continues Bergoglio - ten years of war, what happens there that doesn't stop?

What interests do these things move?

Then there is the Horn of Africa, then the north of Mozambique or Eritrea and a part of Ethiopia, then Myanmar with this suffering people that I love so much, the Rohingya people who go round, round and round like a gypsy and finds no peace.

But

, please ”adds the Pontiff, returning to a concept that has been clarified several times and of which he reaffirms his conviction at every opportunity: the fact that the“ Third World War

”is underway.

Recalling, again, a personal memory of when he was a child (the alarm sound of the largest newspaper in Buenos Aires, heard throughout the capital at the outbreak of the war and when the conflict ended; and of his mother and neighbor, who were crying of joy for the end of the war nightmare), the Pope points out that "Peace is greater than all wars" and adds: "I wonder: I don't know if today we are educated in our hearts to cry for joy when we see peace.

Everything changed.

If you don't make war, you are not useful! ”.

Vatican Media / LaPresse

Pope Francis on the return flight to Rome

“So many governments in twenty years?

Everyone has their own way of dancing the tango.

But politics is a noble vocation "

It is then the moment of Italian politics, in the run-up to the political elections.

“

.

Great.

Then

.

On the last trip I asked one of my secretaries how many governments Italy has had in this century: twenty.

I neither condemn it nor criticize it, I don't know how to explain it ”says Bergoglio, joking:“ Everyone has their own way of dancing the tango ”.

But then he adds: “If governments change like this, there are many questions to ask.

Because

.

To be a great politician, who puts himself

, not for interests, for the armchair ". Therefore, in Italy as in other countries, we must" look for great politicians "who have" the ability to do politics, which is an art. Politics

", Francis continues .

.

"I believe that one of the Popes, I don't know if Pius XII or Saint Paul VI, said that politics is one of the highest forms of charity", the Pope continued. "We must fight to help our politicians to maintain the level of high politics, not low-level politics which does not help at all, and indeed brings down the state, impoverishes itself ”continues Bergoglio.

Which then passes to Europe: "Today politics in the countries of Europe should take over the problem, for example, of the

, the problem of industrial development, of natural development, the problem of migrants "and suggests resorting to migrants to repopulate the" empty countries ":" Even in Italy there are empty countries, only twenty old ladies there and then nothing.

But why not make a policy of the West where immigrants are inserted with the principle that the migrant must be welcomed, accompanied, promoted and integrated?

This is very important, to integrate ”, the Pontiff explains.

To those who ask him about the Holy See's relations with

, the Pope explains: “It takes a century to understand China, and we don't live a century.

The Chinese mentality is a rich mentality and when it gets a little sick, it loses wealth, it is capable of making mistakes ”.

Then, dwelling on the usefulness of dialogue to create opportunities for meeting, Bergoglio recalls that "there is a Vatican-Chinese bilateral commission that is going well, slowly, because the Chinese pace is slow, they have an eternity to go forward. : it is a people of infinite patience "says the Pontiff, however clarifying that" I do not feel like qualifying China as undemocratic, because it is such a complex country, yes it is true that there are things that do not seem democratic to us , that's true ".

“Killing is not human, period.

If you kill with motivation, yes you will eventually kill more and more.

”he cuts short, then, to those who ask him for euthanasia.

On the trade and manufacture of arms, he simply calls it “a murderous trade.

Someone who knows the statistics - stressed Bergoglio - said that if we stopped making arms for a year, all hunger in the world would be resolved.

I do not know if it is true or not, but intervening on hunger, education, it is not possible because weapons must be made… ”.

Finally, a ritual question about the upcoming trips planned: “As for the trips: it's difficult.

.

It is difficult, but I will do it next time ”Pope Francis explains in reference to a

.

“Then I spoke the other day with Monsignor Welby (Anglican primate archbishop of Canterbury,

) and we saw

added Bergoglio, “and if I go to South Sudan

.

We are trying.

All three of us have to go together: the head of the Church of Scotland, Monsignor Welby and myself ”.