This season, Sergey Plishkin has staged performances by all Perm couples, the dance group of Ekaterina Rubleva and Ivan Shefer, the strongest Georgian sports duet Anastasia Metyolkina and Luka Berulava. Each of the performances became a memorable performance, and the choreographer himself once said: a figure skater's program is a story that should be told in a non-trivial way. On the eve of the European Championships, we met with the choreographer in Moscow.

– Based on the results of the Russian Championship in December, I identified three programs that stuck with me the most. These are "Dorian Gray" by Pyotr Gumennik, a short program by Ksenia Sinitsyna, as well as a free dance by Varvara Zhdanova and Timur Babaev-Smirnov. Can you name your top?

— How can you be objective when you are involved in it? How can you not time yourself there?

— Give reasons why you think so.

I like the free dance of Alexandra Stepanova and Ivan Bukin. Selection of music, non-standard choreography. Throughout the dance, the guys actually tell their story. I like the short program of our Perm couple Ekaterina Chikmareva and Matvey Yanchenkov. Well, I agree, Zhdanova and Babaev-Smirnov turned out to be very invigorating in "Figaro".

— I liked Katya and Matvey first of all because they are fast, with excellent paired elements.

"I would say that when they came third, they were in their place. I like the production itself because there is a flow, a flow. Now, it started and went on like a song that doesn't have a chorus. I want to listen, listen.

— In my opinion, flow is not so much a choreographic quality as the absence of weaknesses in physical training. In order to maintain continuity of movement throughout the program, all the small muscles of the core must be worked out very well. There should be no feeling: here you have invested in the choreotrack, and there you have run out of strength, and you have to gain momentum again with running steps. Don't agree?

— My opinion is a little different in this regard. If you dig into your memory, you can find a duo, a couple, or a singles player who has been in equally good physical shape for several seasons. But one program had flow and the other didn't.

"For example?"

"I won't go far. Stepanova and Bukin have hip-hop in the Olympic season. Was there a flow? For me, yes. By the December Russian Championships, these skaters had gained approximately the same shape as they had before Sasha went on maternity leave. And the impression of the rhythm dance is different. Therefore, in my understanding, flow is still the development of choreography. In addition, there is a strategy for arranging elements according to the program. This is also very important. If you put the rotation at the wrong time, or put it to the wrong music, the viewer will get bored. And you lost it.

"In the same way, it can be boring to watch the same supports wander from program to program.

— Of course, I always want to surprise. But, unfortunately, many figure skaters are guilty of what you said. For some, the approaches to the jump do not change for decades. Let's say a person gets it into his head: he can jump a flip only in this place of prayer and only from a certain approach, and nothing can move him from this position.

– Of the programs you staged for the Perm pairs, I liked the free skate of Elizaveta Osokina and Artem Gritsaenko. You did a great job of emphasizing the unusualness of these athletes.

– If we talk about the performance of the guys at the Russian Championship, I have mixed feelings. There was a negative emotion after the unfortunate story with Artem's shoelace.

"How was it possible to let a man out on the ice with his shoelaces frayed almost to the ground?"

— You know, even before this incident, I had an internal motto: there are no children in sports. There are small adults. And then the motto was simply destroyed. Because what happened is, first of all, childishness. And on our part, it turns out, too. For the children who skate in our group in the second or third category, I always check before going out on the ice: how the laces are, whether the strap is fastened. Here, it would seem, there is no need to do this. But it turns out I was wrong.

How do you explain your choice of music for the short program of these skaters? It seems to me that "Bohemia" in this arrangement does not sound on the ice at all. In some places, the arrangement is simply perceived as a messy and rather messy set of sounds.

"I bought into that music because the guys were really excited about it. The director, of course, has to dictate some of his own conditions, but sometimes, if you see that people's eyes are burning, it is better not to interfere.

— Is it such a trend of the time, a desire to take, if not new, then unusual?

— I can talk about music for a very long time, and I can, in principle, give an explanation of what is happening. At one time, I went through a passion for punk rock, and I remember my father wondering: how can you listen to such a thing when there is Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Queen, Mashina Vremeni, at worst. I'm a little older now. And in the same way, sometimes you want to say: "Guys, there is great music, well, what kind of Radiohead can it be? For them, such a position is incomprehensible, unobvious, and intangible.

"So it's all about age?"

"And in evolution, too. My dad was able to understand Mozart, Rachmaninoff, Bach, and the music he listened to when he was young, becoming a music lover. In my current status, I'm able to understand not only that, but also Nirvana and Radiohead. Our kids will add something completely new to this list.

— Was there at least a short period in your life when the classics seemed like mothballs?

"No, I don't. She always calmed me down. Rachmaninoff and Stravinsky are icons. All of today's music came out of there. What is Sampling? It's a cut piece of pre-existing music that has been processed and re-recorded. With new lyrics, with a new beat, with a new bass guitar. In this regard, Stravinsky is a genius. His final fanfare... If you listen to the music of the 80s, all of it is built on this sound in one way or another. Therefore, the classics will never become mothballs. That's why it's a classic.

Why is Rachmaninoff so hard to skate?

"For example, try to calculate the rhythm in Prelude in C-sharp minor. Are there two quarters, four quarters, three quarters, or even five eighths? Neither. The music is constantly floating. It's like it's rocking you on the waves. You can roll it, but how? Will it resonate in the hearts of the audience and judges, will they like it?

— If we talk about choreography in figure skating, is there a concept of fashion?

"For me, yes.

"And what are they 'wearing' now?"

"It's easier to start from the opposite. To say that it has gone out of fashion. For example, folk dances. If we start going through the Olympic productions, how many good dances of the peoples of the world will we remember?

— But the Canadians had an absolutely phenomenal riverdance, didn't they?

"Are you talking about Shae-Lynn Bourne and Victor Kraatz?" It's 1994. At that time, I didn't think about any skates at all, due to my age. But I love this program, I just love it. For me, this is still an exemplary production.

For some reason, I thought that after the Olympic rhythm dance of Gabriela Papadakis and Guillaume Cizeron in the style of vogue, everyone would rush to wave their hands on the ice.

"So some of them rushed, but they couldn't do it. Luna Hendrix is trying this season, although I don't think she did. For such a dance, you need to spend a lot of time in the hall.

"At the same time, only the lazy did not talk about the monotony of Papadakis and Cizeron.

"From my point of view, this is not the case. In general, I would like to say words of gratitude for the fact that Gabriela and Guillaume brought this style to our sport. We combined Art Nouveau on the floor with skates. But, the performance of this couple was not only modern. The programs were different. In terms of emotional content, in terms of music.

Was there any similarity? Well, we can say the same thing about Picasso: he gave out the same thing throughout his career as an artist. And this is handwriting, style. It's just that for figure skaters, the hand is their own body.

And speaking of fashion... Now, for example, we are starting to have some pieces of music and styles coming back, but I'm not sure if they would have been able to come back if it weren't for the circumstances in which we live now. Much is dictated from the outside. You can take Russian music, but not all of it, because someone is a foreign agent.

— Or does he sing in a different language than in the original production of Rammstein by Gumennik?

"Exactly. Language does not belong to some abstract "evil" state. It belongs to the person who knows it and uses it.

— Before talking to you, I devoted the evening to watching various programs and noticed an interesting thing. At the Games in Pyeongchang, Alina Zagitova had two ballet productions - "Black Swan" and "Don Quixote". But if in the free program the skater tried to hold her head, arms, and back as clearly as possible, then in the short program her head was mostly lowered, as well as her shoulders. Such "trifles", as it seems to me, greatly interfere with the perception of the production.

— I had a great experience of working with Nikolai Tsiskaridze. At that time we were staging Chopiniana for one of the couples of Nina Mikhailovna Moser, and I acted, so to speak, as a translator, transliteration of the ballet production on ice. A couple of hours before Tsiskaridze arrived, I worked with the guys myself, I had already led them to a few elements, built a strategy, a drawing. Then Nikolai came and looked at it and said, "Everything is very good. But Chopiniana is a ringing classic of ballet dance. You've crossed your arms here and there, and this is Don Quixote. So remove these movements if you want a person who understands ballet to say, 'You're great.'"

"An ordinary spectator evaluates performances from the position of whether they like it or not. What do you think?

"Exactly the same. It would seem that in order to appreciate someone else's work, you need to look at it through the eyes of a specialist. But somehow I tried to watch as a spectator. I took off, so to speak, my coach's coat and learned a lot more for myself.

Which skater has the best Michael Jackson?

"That's a tough question. After all, I immediately start comparing it with the original, and the answer automatically suggests itself: Jackson. He was so unique, everything he did on stage was so tailored to him... Like a custom-made suit.

– At the open skating this season, I personally really liked Adelia Petrosyan's interpretation of this image. Although I understand that apart from a couple of the most recognizable steps and a red jacket from Jackson, there is not much there.

"This technique also has the right to exist: take the design code of a brilliant choreography, add red, and then the music will do its job.

- Have you ever faced the fact that you offer the coach one thing, and he says: there are proven things and there is no need to take risks?

"There are moments like that. In such cases, I have a short answer: why did you call me then, if you want the old?

— For you to praise the choice, probably.

"Okay, you've got 800,<> roubles, thank you."

— Is this the cost of the program?

"It's the cost of praise. I'm joking, of course, but seriously, there are, of course, conflicts. More often with adult athletes, especially when you just start working with them. I understand them: they don't know me yet, why should I trust them? Thanks to the coaching staff where I worked, they taught me how to sell programs while sitting at a desk.

"And what does it look like?"

"I'm starting to talk about the music, the story, the composer. What place did this track occupy when it first entered Billboard? I suggest that you at least try to accept the idea I have proposed. If I don't like it, I'll admit my mistake and we'll put on Carmen. And people involuntarily begin to listen: maybe there is really something in my words?

"In the era when the country traded Herbalife, you wouldn't have been priced.

"Yes, we'd be rich.

— I know that there are a lot of people in figure skating who cover their face with their hands when they hear the word "Carmen". Like, no, no, not that.

"This is a classic, and not only musical, but also figure skating.

"And that's why she can't be beaten?"

"I don't think so. But classics can be ruined by poor performance.

— Can you name a benchmark production?

"I don't think so. Although the list will be decent. One can recall Carmen by Tessa Verteu and Scott Moir, which they skated in 2013, or the more classical production by Tatiana Navka and Roman Kostomarov at the Games in Turin. Or even the production by Natalia Bestemyanova and Andrei Bukin, which started a series of their victorious performances in 1985.

— Which interpretation of the classics on ice do you prefer – the traditional one, or something like Daisuke Takahashi's "Swan Lake" in the hip-hop style?

"I'm not against eclecticism in that regard. There are successful mixtures of styles, and even different eras. Very successful. Sometimes, especially for young people, it's an open door to the classics. Before that, people might not have known about the existence of such music at all, and then suddenly they "heard" it. And there they just took a sample, from the classics.

"We talk about young people with such reverence. Soon we will have to put rap programs en masse.

"And we will, if need be." How could it be otherwise? The viewer changes. If I get older and get stuck inside my preferences, I risk being thrown out of the profession. You need to keep up with the times if you want to remain a good specialist. And be ahead of the curve if you want to be successful.

— Which of your productions do you consider to be the most avant-garde?

"So to stand in front of the mirror, look at yourself and say, 'Well done'?" I like the free program of our juniors Daria Drozhzhina and Ivan Telnov. Composed by Cosmo Sheldrake. Non-standard music, there are wind instruments, change of rhythms, very distinctive vocals. And my invention: a story about what it's like to live with a person who is sometimes out of his mind. I consider this program to be my avant-garde. And I really like it.

Is there a couple or skater you'd really like to work with?

"I've already realized this dream with Stepanova and Bukin. Recently, I gave them a demonstration number. At the Russian Championships in Chelyabinsk, unfortunately, not everything worked out, but we will definitely bring the production to mind. I had something to say when I offered the guys this number.

— Is such an event as a tournament of show programs interesting to you in terms of work?

"Very much. If I receive an offer this year, I will be happy to consider it. Last year, there were proposals, but our application did not pass the rules.

"What do you mean?"

"They allowed only established duets to skate, and we had the idea to change partners. I will not disclose the details, since the performance did not happen.

"In the old days, coaches were very careful to develop the pattern of the program in order to remove away from the judges' eyes some things that the athlete does not fully master. A reference example is Adelina Sotnikova's triple lutz at the Olympic Games in Sochi. Everyone knew that it often had the wrong edge, but the jump was inserted into the program in such a way that the wrong edge could not be seen from any of the judges' seats. Whose duty is it to hide dubious places?

"I would say it's collective. If you are a good specialist, you should understand in advance where the athlete has the most serious problems. And you will come to the coach with a ready-made version of how to cover it all neatly.

— By the way, where did your choreographic fraternity, and not only in Russia, come from the tendency of the closest possible contact between figure skaters and judges? People either start the performance from the board, or in the process of skating they fall into it, or finish the program there.

— Well, I didn't support this trend somehow. None of my programs touch the board. Breaking that fourth wall, so to speak.

"At one time, it was explained to me: an athlete, when skating, always chooses one judge, but never looks him in the eye. Selects a point between the eyebrows, on the bridge of the nose. No one specifically teaches this, but everyone does it this way, because any gaze into the eyes takes energy. Now figure skaters sometimes directly devour the referees with their eyes.

"It's an entrance to a person's personal space, but it doesn't work for everyone. Not every judge likes it. As for the board, it can be a strategic move. Take, for example, the pairs short program, where athletes have two minutes and fifty seconds to perform seven pairs. In terms of time, this is a very serious timeframe. If you start from the board, you can get to the first element a little faster. I drove through the track, covered the entire site, as required by the rules, finished at the side - the path is closed.

"It's a really clever move.

"Forced, rather. Such a voiced, visualized pain of our common suffering. Add 10 seconds to us, please, if the people on whom it depends are reading this interview. Add 10 seconds! And immediately there will be a chance to see beautiful programs in pairs. With an interesting beginning, with foreplay, with a beautiful ending. And not with an unexpected break from rotation. That's two words, if anything...