- In the year of the centenary of Dynamo, you can say that you celebrate your personal date: you started working in this society exactly 60 years ago. What does it mean to you? Is it the love of your life?

"Rather, my whole life. My formation as a person, as a leader, took place precisely within the walls of Dynamo. There is no such position in the staffing table that I would not occupy. Well, except for the chief accountant, perhaps. It is a great school of life in every way.

In general, I would say that belonging to a particular sports society in sports is like a religion. Ask any fan why he is rooting for Spartak or Dynamo, hardly anyone will answer. It's like a microbe that enters the heart. And you carry it throughout your life.

In terms of its avant-garde historical significance, Dynamo is also unique. In the years when it was created, no one set the task of participating in the Olympic Games. It was then that sport became an integral segment of the product, let's say. But the main role remained and, in my opinion, continues to be the strengthening of the confidence of our entire society in the country's law enforcement agencies.

- Do you think that this is still relevant now?

- It seems to me quite symbolic that with all the cascade of repressions against the country's law enforcement agencies that took place in the 1990s, Felix Dzerzhinsky remains the honorary chairman of Dynamo to this day. The monument on Lubyanka Square was demolished, but the man was not deleted from the Dynamo chronicle. They did not tear Dynamo away from law enforcement.

But seriously, being a public organization, Dynamo has always been, on the one hand, the personification of law enforcement agencies, on the other hand, it showed that law enforcement agencies are not only organizations that provide some punitive functions. And crime prevention, caring for children from disadvantaged families, children of employees, employees themselves. It was Dynamo that gave people the opportunity to improve their physical training, to feel the state significance of physical culture as a whole. With such a systematic approach, sport simply could not but become a part of the life of the country, as a social phenomenon.

- Agree that times have changed. After all, in the 1920s, there were seven million street children in the country.

- The number of juvenile delinquents in prisons is also not small. Therefore, it is very important to make a decision on the role of the Dynamo society at the present stage of Russia's development. In 1986, I signed a decree on the transfer of Dynamo to the club system. Then it was justified: the country was collapsing, there was no money. Now many clubs have actually gone into independent swimming, and this, in my opinion, is wrong.

"Why?"

- At one time, Dynamo was a huge concern that was completely self-sufficient. When I took over the leadership of the central Council of Dynamo, there were 600 people in its staffing table. That is, it was a full-fledged ministry, which, in addition to physical culture and sports, was engaged in industry, and the work of enterprises, and construction, and medicine, and much more. The material support of all Dynamo servicemen was exclusively at the expense of society - it consisted of deductions that came from 70 enterprises in 14 industries.

The famous Dynamo costumes, which were popularly called "pajamas" and for which there was a huge demand, were sewn throughout the country in Moscow, at a factory that was located in a church next to the Children's World. Some more capacious enterprises were based in Ukraine, Georgia and Belarus. Thus, huge capital was accumulated, which ensured the activities of all allied Dynamo structures and organizations. If any sports club worked according to the same formula now, in terms of income it would be at least Manchester United.

- Do you think it is possible to implement something like this in modern conditions?

- Well, look: the system of the National Guard now includes private security companies, where a very large number of people serve and work. Dynamo could well deal with the issues of physical training and certification of these people. As well as the training of drivers, which was previously done by the DOSAAF society. It is clear that this is not fundamental, but fast money, but where do you need to start? It is clear that times have changed, investment mechanisms have changed, but if the government a month ago announced that it allocates 300 million rubles to those organizations that are starting to engage in the production of sporting goods under the import substitution program, I have a question: why Dynamo, which still has its own enterprises and has relevant experience, is not the first in this queue. But we continue to live according to the principle of "Give!", Not realizing that this "Give!" will end the day after tomorrow.

- I would say that the leading Dynamo clubs are already in poverty. Or is it not about them?

- Unfortunately, all these clubs in a certain sense work for themselves, even when they create their own academies and children's schools.

"Why would they work for someone else?"

- Because if I work with the children of a school or boarding school at my own expense, it strengthens my image, the attitude of people towards me.

In this regard, the social significance of Dynamo has always been much deeper than it seemed from the outside. Now professional clubs have huge funds due to transfers and investments. And they, I think, are obliged to sponsor physical culture in the country. Otherwise, it turns out that our professional elite sport does not work at all.

- Why should sports societies be puzzled by such questions, and not the Ministry of Sports, for example, which stands above the entire sports industry?

— In general, it seems to me that the approach to sports as an industry is wrong. Physical culture and sport are an intersectoral phenomenon. From the Ministry of Defense to the Ministry of Health, everyone has to deal with people's health in one way or another. And the task of the country's chief sports leader is to expand this field as much as possible.

With the advent of the Ministry of Sports, we simply created a body in the country for the operational management of national teams. Sports federations began to do the same. Although the charter of each of them clearly states that the main task of the federation is to develop its sport in the country, and not to turn into a group of comrades around the national team, which lowered all development issues to the regions and freed itself from what should actually be done.

It is not so easy to build the correct system in legislative and regulatory terms: no one will do this on the ground on their own. In addition, it should be understood that local budgets already live with a colossal load. Physical culture will always be the last line there, not to mention the fact that there is no regulatory framework that would oblige you to allocate money for this.

- But there are sponsors, patrons.

- Patronage is an unstable formula. Because it rests on personalities. And the financial capabilities of a single person are not unlimited. And then, why should patronage be irrevocable? If a person invests money in something, there must be some kind of personal interest behind it. This does not mean that you immediately return everything invested. But take the cycling "Tour de France" or in general the entire professional Western sport, where all advertising works back. In our country, advertising of Gazprom or Rosneft is not needed at all. Because they do not have a final product, but a raw material. Which, without any advertising, will be torn off with their hands.

- Is the centenary of Dynamo the extreme point, or the starting point?

- I would say that this is a good reason to ask the question: "What's next?". In the situation of the fracture that our country has experienced, including sports, it is important that Dynamo has survived and continues to exist. Certain traditions have been preserved, including the famous Dynamo patriotism, pride in the letter "D".

"Are you sure about that?"

"Absolutely. Not so long ago I was in Kazan at one of the Dynamo events and saw such a modern and absolutely lively organization, such an amazing attitude to their work on the part of the leadership of Dynamo Tatarstan, that I experienced a feeling from some deep past. I believe that this experience deserves not only to be encouraged, but also to be disseminated. When we talk about some problems and difficulties, we somehow forget to add that all these problems and difficulties are created by people. But in the same way, people are behind any good start.

It is clear that the whole sport has become completely different today. And it seems to me that we simply have to consider and legislate many things in order to keep the foundation. Big sport is not going anywhere in this case. But it is only a small part of physical culture, its upper segment, exhibition. Realizing the unique capabilities of individual unique people. And it simply cannot be massive.

  • The triumvirate of the Dynamo Central Council: Chairman Vladimir Bogdanov, President of the International Amateur Cycling Federation Valery Sysoev and Head of the Football and Hockey Department Arkady Chernyshev (from left to right).
  • © Igor Utkin

- Do you understand what is happening in Olympic sports now and why?

- Of course. It is necessary to understand a simple thing: world sport, as such, has long been the subject of business. And business, on the one hand, does not tolerate competition, and on the other hand, it always plays by its own rules. The same IOC is nothing more than a huge international concern for the implementation of professional sports through business structures. It's just that no one can take the liberty of saying openly: guys, the Olympic sport is over. Then that's the only way.

When professionals were admitted to the Olympic movement in 1988, we happily picked it up, but to this day we have not answered the main question: how do we see professional sports both inside and outside Russia. Have you not formed a position that would allow us to gather people around us and ask: are you with us, or are you against us? Therefore, society as a whole looks at sports and cannot understand anything: are we talking about citizenship and patriotism, or is it about professionalism?

- Choosing between citizenship and professionalism, we are stepping on very slippery ground.

"Why?" If we believe that sport should first and foremost remain a spectacle, then fill the stadiums so that 100,<> spectators shout admiringly from the stands, and millions watch it on TV. This is a professional sport that will never leave this road, because business is interested in it. And where there is business and, accordingly, money, there will invariably be the media, which in one way or another form the attitude to sports all over the world.

But: if we agree that sport is a profession, let's treat it as a profession. In other words, the athlete must have a contract with the club, and if a person plays for the national team, then with those who provide his training. And here all the nuances of the relationship should be stipulated and recorded on paper. In order not to lament later: they say, we fed him, dressed him, invested money in him, and he, such a scoundrel, left for Israel to speak.

We don't criticize our artists for going to work abroad, do we? Or the same Sasha Ovechkin for continuing to play in the NHL? You can't criticize the profession at all. For several decades, we have dipped our athletes in such a strong brine of world sports that now it is simply stupid to complain that they have become so. Here's the sport, here's the medals, here's the money. Nothing personal, as they say.

- What is Russian sport doomed to in this situation? Should we accept reality and continue to stew in our own juice, or should we seize on any available attempts to return to international peace?

- Today we have a fairly small group of outstanding athletes who do not have many chances to win something. In my understanding, it is very important to help them. To understand what they want, to use all available opportunities to employ people. At the same time, it is necessary to provide the next echelon with all the conditions for training so that they do not lose the qualities they have already developed. And the legislative framework needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

The presence of professional sports without a legalized base, I mean federal laws, with a full statement of social protection for athletes and coaches after they have completed their careers in big sports, is a kind of nonsense. Such a system exists, for example, in the NHL - there all issues, including pensions, have been worked out very clearly. That is, the League guarantees its players not only large salaries, but also a certain security after sports.

- Well, the majority of Russian hockey players therefore seek to play there, and not in the KHL, even for much more solid money.

"That's right. Because the KHL, like a state in which there are no relevant laws, is a ghostly guarantor. We cannot manage professional sports with the amateur norms of the old format. And this must finally be recognized.

- I listen to you, and I think about this: there are a huge number of professional athletes in the country who are well aware that as soon as they announce the end of their careers, at the same moment they will no longer be needed by anyone. What makes us think that in the current situation, professional athletes should generally think about politics, and not about realizing their own abilities and ambitions? Even under a white flag.

- Sport is a very closed world, and at the same time well-paid when compared with other professions. This makes it to a certain extent an antisocial phenomenon. But it is impossible to live in society without thinking about how we see the solution of a particular problem in our own country in the light of what is happening in the world as a whole.

It is clear that people who are now in favor of going to the Olympics at any cost put at the forefront the years of life spent on sports, exhausting training, health, money, and so on. But your country has a certain history. And the white flag in this context is a symbol of surrender.