The controversy of the Islamic political heritage is still strongly present in the Arab cultural scene, and constitutes a large part of the debate in which the historical and the philosophical are mixed, in a dialogue that is not without political projections on contemporary reality.

In its quest to elucidate aspects of this controversy, Al-Jazeera Net hosts the Moroccan thinker and historian M'hamed Gabroun, in a dialogue about the formation and effects of the Islamic political heritage with the interactions of current modernity.

Based on the books, studies and scientific participations he presented in numerous academic files, the Moroccan thinker's preoccupation focused on issues of Islamic culture, as well as the dilemmas of democratic transformation in the Arab world, and he has published many books in this regard, most notably:

The history of Morocco's Al-Aqsa from the Islamic conquest to the occupation (Doha 2019), the emergence and development of Islamic political thought (Doha 2016), the possibility of Islamic revival ... a critical review of Abdallah Laroui's reform project (Beirut 2012), and the concept of the Islamic state (Doha 2014), as well as He won many important Arab academic prizes, so to the dialogue:

How can political power be described in the era of the Prophet, may God bless him and grant him peace?

How did this era shape Islamic political thought?

The political authority in the era of the Messenger, may God’s prayers and peace be upon him, was a temporal authority despite the character of the prophethood that characterized the leader and head of this power, the Prophet Muhammad, may blessings and peace be upon him. This means that the grounds and requirements for exercising power, its extension, and its nature.

It arose in contact and response to reality, and therefore political power was in fact a changing practice according to circumstances, and not a fixed and stereotypical practice, which was evident at the level of the concept of the ummah and its basic elements, and also at the level of the development of the relationship with non-Muslims, Jews and polytheists.

Hence, prophetic political thought is civil, realistic, reformist, and ethical.

The Rightly Guided Caliphs after the Prophet, peace be upon him, represented this thought and followed his path, but this matter did not last for long for many reasons. We referred to some of them in our book “The Origins and Development of Islamic Political Thought,” on top of which is the Persian influence, which strongly pushed the Islamic political experience towards The text, as we noticed the gradual transformation of Islamic political thought into a domain of constants, texts, and fragments.

Something that was not clear in early Islamic political texts and practices.

The political idea as you say Do you know a large presence in the Holy Quran?

Is the size of this presence reflected in the Prophet’s biography?

The Islamic political idea, in its essence, is ethical, constitutes a background for textual rulings, and it is constant that is not followed by copying or changing, unlike texts that have been abrogated, and its rulings differed according to circumstances and conditions.

Therefore, the basic reference for Islamic political thought - whether in the Qur’an or the Sunnah - is an ethical reference based on an intertwined and integrated value system.

For example, if justice required at one stage of the early development of Islam to divide the spoils between the conquerors and the mujahideen according to merit, then the same value necessitated that it be discarded at another stage, and replaced by shares and wages, and so on.

It is no secret to the reader that this matter contains definitive texts, and the age-old jurisprudence in this section may appear outside the text, but in fact it is in the depth of the text and its ethical aims that many jurists and fundamentalists ignored by focusing on the appearance and the utterance of the texts.

The book "The Genesis of Islamic Political Thought" by the Moroccan thinker M'hamed Gabroun (Al Jazeera)

You described political thought before writing in your book "The Origins of Islamic Political Thought" as predominantly of oral communication and connection with the environment and customs, and that it is influenced by the cultural environment, how is that?

How did this affect the formation of the political thought that we know today?

It is true that Islamic political thought is the son of its environment, as it has been influenced by the Arabs ’norms and their habits of management and administration.

Consequently, many of the practices practiced by the early Muslim leaders - including the Prophet, peace be upon him - were influenced by the Arab environment, and the Messenger, peace be upon him, was more like a leader of a tribal alliance than an emperor or a king, and this experience was not sacred, and in its details and means from heaven, and from Then the uniqueness of the prophetic political experience is neither necessary nor can it be sought in the historical and temporal aspects that embodied it, but it must be searched for in the moral reference that framed this experience, and the manifestations of transcendence that it achieved compared to other experiences that were in its surroundings, whether the Jahili or Persian-Sasanian Roman-Byzantine.

However, what must be noted in this context is that these "innate" characteristics of Islamic political thought were overlooked or neglected in the era of codification, as other characteristics emerged and prevailed, most of them imported from the Persian heritage, and some from the Greek-Byzantine / Caesarian heritage;

Therefore, classical Islamic political thought in a large part does not reflect the innate characteristics of Islamic political thought as represented by the prophetic experience, but rather the characteristics of the age of codification, which in all cases are not substantially original.

Classical Islamic political thought in a large part does not reflect the innate characteristics of Islamic political thought as represented by the prophetic experience, but rather reflects the characteristics of the era of codification which in all cases are not substantially authentic.

What are the most important races of political thought before the age of blogging?

How did it appear?

The Islamic political thought before the era of blogging cannot be naturalized and classified according to the chapters of science that were known after the codification.

If we want to limit and naturalize the phrases of Islamic political thought in this early period, it can be said - and very briefly - that they did not deviate from the following categories: political thought related to proverbs and governance, political thought related to literature and nails, political thought related to speeches and correspondence, and ideological political thought related to early speech In the imamate, and a juristic political thought represented in a set of jurisprudential rulings of a political nature.

This classification reflects the simplicity of Islamic political thought at this stage, and it also reinforces our impression that in its essence it is rational and historical, it was not found complete, nor was it revealed as a whole in one of the stages of the Qur’an being revealed and forming the Sunnah.

What are the most important features that characterized the era of blogging in the formation of Islamic political thought?

The decline of Arab culture in the face of the Persian culture, which was strong and well-known, and the entry of many non-Arabs into Islam, especially the Persians and Shamans;

He strongly and effectively influenced the Islamic political phrase that would be formed in the light of the Persian legacy mainly, whether in relation to the relationship of religion to politics and the solid solidarity between them, or the decline of the level of rationalization and civilization in Islamic political thought, which was its characteristic before the codification.

The decline of Arab culture in the face of the Persian culture, which was strong and well-known, and the entry of many non-Arabs into Islam, especially from the Persians and Shamans, strongly and effectively affected the Islamic political phrase that would be formed mainly in light of the Persian heritage

This early Persian influence or alienation of Islamic political thought, which was - on the one hand - at the expense of its Arabism, provides us with strong evidence of the flexibility that this thought enjoys and its ability to respond to the historical moment, as it is not a given or a static text, but a living thought He is able to interact with the context, no matter how difficult it is, and therefore the message that can be captured from this aspect is that Muslims today have the full right to exercise their historical right to interact from the perspective of Islam with the age and its multiple civilizations, and its various entitlements.

On the other hand, Islamic political thought emerged gradually as it is the case in political jurisprudence.

The beginning was with the jurisprudence of funds, then the judiciary and the states, then the sultanistic rulings, which are the last sections to appear.

In your valuable study, I indicated that Islamic thought is attracted by currents such as theology, jurisprudence, sultanistic literature and philosophy, how is that?

Is the crisis of Islamic political thought rooted in theological and theological?

Islamic political thought is not a single sentence or a coherent genre that can be defined in a specific and precise way, but rather it is the title of intellectual and cultural activity, and multiple interaction with political issues and their reality, and for this reason it is in fact juristic, modern, literary, philosophical and verbal thought.

Consequently, if we want to study and analyze Islamic political thought, a fact that cannot be reduced to jurisprudence or speech. Rather, we must take into account the productions and accumulations that have been achieved in other fields relatively far from the sciences and knowledge of Sharia, such as philosophy and literature, for example.

As for the crisis of Islamic political thought in this perspective, it is basically a crisis that depicts the relationship of religion and belief with life.

Many Muslims believe that this relationship is clear and described, and it is sufficient for those charged with compliance and commitment, and they refer to a number of heritage sources in defining this relationship by stating its costs and provisions, but the truth is far from that.

The relationship of Islam as a religion with life needs to be renewed and reconsidered in light of what we have previously said, a renewal that reconsiders the map of moral constants, and makes it a ruler over other rulings.

In other words, diligence must be made today in the safe transfer of Islamic political thought from a reference to jurisprudence in its classical sense to a reference to ethics and values.

Islamic political thought emerged gradually, as it is in the case of political jurisprudence, so the beginning was with the jurisprudence of money.

Then the judiciary and states;

Then the rulings of the Sultan, which is the last chapter to appear

Did Sufi thought contribute to perpetuating the thought of obedience within the Islamic political thought system?

Or devoted the thought of resistance?

Sufi political thought is attracted by two main currents: a current that made it fuel for resistance and political opposition, and this matter was embodied in a number of Sufi currents, especially in Andalusia with the Ibn Qassi movement (d. 539 AH).

And the current devoted to spiritual resistance and the pursuit of reform by ruling instead of judgments, and its companions tried to extend their control over the kingdom of the soul, leaving the kingdom of sense to its owners, the sultans and jurists.

In practice, however, the sufi current prevailed, which wagered on reforming and refining souls as the gateway to reforming the world and material existence.

In your book "The Concept of the Islamic State" you talked about the inevitability of modernity, is it the same as Abdullah Al-Larwi talked about?

I do not think so;

Political modernity does not need an expectation or prediction today, but rather a situation and reality in which we live and live in Islamic countries in different and different forms. Only what we must strive for today is its creation and removal from its physical violence and abstract rationality, which cause many disasters today.

Hence, saying the inevitability of modernity today is a call for diligence to create it.

You are talking about the constitutional resurrection in exchange for the pledge of allegiance. Do you see that the modernist development of allegiance is the constitutional document, despite the cognitive and historical differences that frame the two experiences?

The pledge of allegiance is in its origin and essence a political contract between the ruler and the ruled, and this is the same idea that constitutions represent;

Hence, pledging allegiance is in the deepest moral background to the constitution, and gives it strength, and there is no meaning for duality in this regard.

The idea of ​​allegiance, in its essence, derived from the Arab tradition, is a revolutionary political idea, but unfortunately it has not developed well historically due to the dominance and tyranny of the tyrannical traditions derived from the Sassanid and Caesarean experiences, but European political modernity provided us with a cultural condition to restore its moral content, and then root the idea of ​​the constitution.

The Islamic state, which is based on a Qur’anic and prophetic moral reference, has its standing, and the world needs it. It is not a technical or institutional idea as much as it is a distinctive ethical perspective of the state’s function and human role.

Is it possible to talk about the concept of the Islamic state in light of the challenges of modernity, or has the reality transcended this concept?

The idea of ​​an Islamic state that is based on a Qur’anic and prophetic moral reference has its merits, and the world needs it.

It is not a technical or institutional idea as much as it is a distinct ethical perspective of the state’s function and its human role. The values ​​of justice, dignity, freedom, equality and solidarity on which the idea of ​​the state from the Islamic perspective is based far exceeds the ethics of the modern state as designed by Western political thought, and lived by most of its countries.