Pedro Rollán: "Amnesty would be to recognise that Spain has been a failed state"

• Upper House The amnesty will return to the Senate before the end of the year with the Debate on the state of the Autonomous Communities after 18 years
• Politics The territorial power of the PP takes shape: twelve autonomies stand up against Sánchez's "betrayal"

Was the Senate expected to get so much attention? Our level of activity is normal, but today Congress is still shut down and that is putting a greater focus on the Senate, by comparison. I believe in the potential of the Senate to give a voice to all the Autonomous Communities. If it's up to me, now there will be more talk about housing, financing and all matters of regional competence. Do you also believe, like Cuca Gamarra, that Armengol has "kidnapped" the legislative power? I don't want to make a statement out of institutional respect, but what I do say loud and clear is that there is a different yardstick for candidate Núñez Feijóo than for candidate Sánchez, and that is anomalous. On Thursday, in the General Commission of the Autonomous Communities, the PP made an exhibition of territorial muscle. Is the Senate going to be the great stronghold of the opposition if the investiture is confirmed? It is clear that the Group of the European People's Party has a very large majority. When there were those very large majorities with Felipe González, there was also a show of force. That is now up to the Group of the European People's Party, simply because the Spaniards have determined that it is so. On Thursday, PSOE barons and members of the government declined to go to the regional commission. Are you afraid that acts that benefit the interests of the PP will turn into monologues? Are you going to do anything to get real debate in the Senate? I thanked the President of the Generalitat of Catalonia for his presence. I'm convinced that he didn't represent all Catalans, but at least he had the gall to come and explain his model. I deeply regret that the Government was not present. Not because it's discourteous to the Senate, but because I think it's a dereliction of duty. It is a very important snub to the only chamber that is currently practising parliamentarism. If the government is so convinced that the decisions it wants to adopt are supported by the majority, what better place than the Cortes to pronounce on the matter? When the election results have been in favour of a party, it turns out that there is an "instrumentalisation". No, Spaniards are much smarter and much more aware of reality. We have given a voice to all the territories and some have not wanted to participate. What would an amnesty for the crimes of the Catalan independence process mean for Spain? Carles Puigdemont and Pere Aragonès are what they are depending on the importance given to them by those who are willing to pay the toll they both impose. Do you think that amnesty would break the territorial equality on which the House over which you preside pivots? I believe it, Feijóo believes it and Sánchez believed it. To recognize an amnesty is to recognize that Spain has been a failed state in which judicial guarantees and the separation of powers have not existed. And I deny the major. Spain is a country in which judicial processes are guaranteed and that is why I cannot agree that there should be an amnesty at the dictate of the coup plotters. Ayuso has said that, after the amnesty, "soon" there would be no Spaniards. Do you share it? Does it seem so serious? Of course, we would no longer all be the same. There would be a group of people who have committed crimes but who have an influence, by parliamentary and personal arithmetic, thanks to which they would have obtained perks in co-existence.Equality is the first step in the development of the country. Do you think the amnesty would open the door to a referendum in Catalonia? If there were to be an amnesty, a red line would be crossed and we do not know where it would end. Who guarantees that there would not be another next step by the separatists, without [criminal] consequences? I would sleep much better if I could assure you that my grandchildren, if I have them, will know Spain as I did. Would you like the Senate to be reformed so that it has more territorial powers, instead of being a second reading chamber? Yes, but for this to happen, a modification of the Constitution is necessary and today the conditions for that are not in place. What role can the Senate play in the reform of regional financing? Can it have an influence? Yes, in that the financing model is not designed as a currency for payment of some to the detriment of the rest. To make it objective. And this is not done with the government talking only to one community or two. What role can the Senate play in the reform of regional financing? Can it have an influence? Yes, in that the financing model is not designed as a currency for payment of some to the detriment of the rest. To make it objective. And that is not done with the government talking only to one community or two. Will the Senate, which has veto power, be a dam against a spending ceiling that would be along those lines? If you negotiate only with a party like Junts, then I rebel, I say it openly. The current regional financing framework wanted to privilege one territory to the detriment of the rest... And it's a failure. Your appointment to the Senate implies changes in the leadership of the PP. What moves do you expect? The adjustment will be made when appropriate, with the parameters set by Alberto Núñez Feijóo.When there is an investiture, should the PP update its ideological presentation, since Feijóo has updated postulates such as abortion? Everything a party does is ideological, and society evolves as well. It is in 2026 that the ideological congress has to take place.What is at stake in Gaza? A lot. It is worthwhile to make every effort on the part of the international community to try once and for all to resolve the situation in Israel and Palestine. It's certainly very complicated. Israel, of course, has the right to defend itself, just as the criterion that all residents of the Gaza Strip are terrorists cannot be applied, because they are not. And, above all, that the war does not spread to third countries. And how do you assess the diplomatic crisis that Spain has had with Israel and its embassy on account of the differences of opinion between PSOE and Sumar? It is the first time in 45 years of democracy that there is a large discrepancy in the same Council of Ministers, and that does not help in any way to maintain the prestige or confidence that Spain once had. and the assassination of Juancho Doval, a UCD politician. Should the five senators of Bildu commit themselves to the clarification of all ETA crimes? What EL MUNDO's investigation has shown is that Bildu is not up to par with the rest of the political formations. Until Bildu is able to contribute decisively not only to a strong and firm condemnation, but also to clarify the more than 370 crimes that are currently unsolved, it will have an unfinished business with dignity in this area.This is the first time that we have been able to

• Senate
• PP
• Israel
• Bildu
• PSOE
• Alberto Núñez Feijóo
• Cuca Gamarra
• Palestine
• Gaza Strip
• Add
• Council of Ministers
• ETA
• THE WORLD
• Generalitat of Catalonia
• Felipe Gonzalez
• Pere Aragonès
• Amnesty