Iranian Nobel Peace Laureate Shirin Ebadi: "The state is afraid of its citizens"

In 2003, Shirin Ebadi was the first Muslim woman to receive the Nobel Peace Prize for her work as a human rights lawyer. Five years later, the Iranian regime withdrew her attorney's license, arrested her colleagues, and shut down Ebadi's NGOs, which worked to uphold human rights. Ebadi has been living in the UK ever since .

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Ms. Ebadi, 2019 is her tenth year in exile - in your home country, you would expect severe penalties. Do you still have hope to return someday?

Shirin Ebadi: Let me first clarify something: I am not living in fear of being punished in exile. I used to spend a lot of time in jail and know that I can handle it very well. But I also know that my voice would not be heard from there. On the other hand, I can speak for the people in Iran from abroad.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Your long-time associate Narges Mohammadi is currently experiencing what it means to be detained in Iran. She is seriously ill and denied access to medical assistance.

Ebadi: Narges has a blood clot in her lungs, in addition she suffers from seizures. For this she would need medication. Most recently, she went on a hunger strike for three days to protest for better prison conditions. But that did not change their situation.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: In addition to Ms. Mohammadi, the regime arrests many other political prisoners - including journalists, students, musicians. How do you assess the current human rights situation in Iran?

Ebadi: Unfortunately she is getting worse by the day. The state is increasingly violent against its citizens because more and more people do not support it anymore. He is afraid of that. The number of prisoners is rising and they are being tortured more often. Recently, 70 workers were arrested whose wages had not been paid - but they protested. Subsequently, they tortured some of them and showed their extorted confessions on state television.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: How do you learn about these fates?

Ebadi: I have daily contact with my colleagues in Iran, but also with political prisoners. That's not allowed by law, but we find our way.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: It was the Iranian people themselves who ousted the Shah in 1979, helping the regime to rise. How did you confront the new rulers at the time?

Ebadi: Back then, I was one of those who supported the new government. Unfortunately.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: How did that happen?

Ebadi: We had two slogans in the revolution: independence and freedom. We were promised that these two goals would be achieved in the Islamic Republic of Iran. Both did not happen in the end. There are no free elections, women's rights have been extremely limited.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: Are you angry today with the Shirin Ebadi?

Ebadi: Yes. When I see the situation of the Iranian youth, I am angry with myself. We wanted to achieve exactly the opposite.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: When did you notice your mistake?

Ebadi: Very soon, on March 8, 1979, on World Women's Day. The new regime was just in power. We organized a gathering to celebrate the rights of women. The country's new religious leader, Ruhollah Khomeini, had always proclaimed before the revolution that all women in the country should be free. But on the morning they brought on the radio that from now on, all women in the authorities would have to wear a headscarf. Our meeting was then interrupted by men with batons, they beat us.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: This year, the Iranian Revolution celebrates the 40th anniversary, the religious leader of the country, Ali Khamenei, is controversial. What do you think are the main reasons for the growing anger of many Iranians?

Ebadi: The people of Iran have no hope in their state. They scream for bread and work. If people scream that, then you have to realize that the situation is very serious. There are three main reasons for this: First, the high level of corruption, second, the misuse of state funds, and third, the economic sanctions. Iran is actually a rich country, but it spends its money in the wrong place - for example, to support Hezbollah in Iraq and Lebanon.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: While Germany and the EU continue to rely on communication with Iran and want to maintain the atomic deal, the US under Donald Trump on confrontation. In your opinion, what is the right strategy to deal with Iran?

Ebadi: Did the talks bring anything? For 40 years, negotiations have been going on. A hard line could bring a real change. But it would have to target the weakening of the regime and not torture people. The current economic sanctions are therefore the wrong way, only the ordinary citizens suffer from them, while the powerful continue to enrich themselves.

SPIEGEL ONLINE: You are now 71 years old. When do you retire?

Ebadi: Then, when there is finally freedom for the people in Iran. I hope that someday we will see big changes in Iran. Without bloodshed. Then I will return to my homeland.