Works by the art group teamLab, which are loved all over the world, transcending language and cultural differences.
When I interviewed Mr. Toshiyuki Inoko, the representative, the word "ultimate entertainment" came out.
What exactly is that?
(Interviewer: Announcer Masahiro Omi, Matsuyama Station Interviewer: Announcer Rikuyu Fujiwara, Tokushima Station)
perceive the world through the body
(Omi)
I think that you have been able to create works that you can see with your whole body, in other words, you have been able to enter into the works of Mr. Inoko and others. Why is that?
(Inoko)
It's simply the most fun.
Actually, I think that humans perceive the world more physically than everyone thinks.
But when I'm in the city normally, I feel like I've understood something only with my head.
We know it only with our heads, for example, we watch TV or look at our smartphones and think that we know it, but in reality, we recognize the world more with our bodies, and we recognize the world through our experiences. Shin.
It sounds difficult, but I don't think there are many people who have changed their sense of values after seeing the scenery of Paris on TV or on the internet.
When I was a university student, I had a lot of backpacking friends, and when they came back, they all said that their sense of values had changed.
Maybe it's true.
I don't think that my sense of values will change that much, even if I just take a quick look at foreign television and think I know it in my head.
But even if you don't have to live there, after spending a few days there, or walking around with your own feet, for some reason, many people say that their sense of values has changed.
(Omi)
Experiences can broaden your perspective and broaden your world.
For you, Inoko, did you have any fun experiences like that?
(Inoko)
There is an old city called Jeddah near Mecca in Saudi Arabia, where we are building a huge museum, and that was the first time I went there.
It was during Ramadan.
I was a little nervous, but when I got there, it was too much of a piece.
It's safe at all, there are only women and children, and the town is full of people even at night, and everyone is really kind and peaceful.
I thought to myself, "Oh, I guess I was unwittingly building up my prejudices."
[Jeddah] enjoys diversity.
Because Islam exists all over the world, various ways of thinking change depending on the region, and the cultural background of life is different.
So I meet a lot of people.
I thought it would be the toughest place to teach, but on the contrary, people from all over the world come here with different backgrounds.
I thought it was funny.
In other words, you meet a lot of different people, and then, well, when you meet them, you forgive them.
I can confirm that after experiencing it.
That's why experiences allow for diverse values.
Beyond whether or not it becomes that value, you forgive everything.
The moment I put it into words, I misunderstand as if there is a boundary
(Omi)
You think that experience is very important.
(Inoko)
That's right.
Look at something on the net, or watch TV, or read a sentence, or just listen to people's stories.
In other words, I think I understood it only with my head.
That kind of thing... I think it's hard for your own values to change or spread, and to put it a little more, if you try to understand it with words and logic, you can cut this world into pieces and understand it. I feel like it's something to do.
For example, the universe and the earth are actually continuous and there is no boundary surface, there is no concrete boundary line, no one can decide.
because they are usually continuous.
You can't set boundaries.
No one can decide for sure.
If this ground is the boundary, then we are in space.
(Komi)
Oh, it's above the line.
(Inoko)
Yes.
That's not true.
I can't really set boundaries.
Because it's just a continuous, gradation transition.
However, the moment I use the word “earth,” for example, I recognize it as if there is a boundary line somewhere.
Not originally.
However, it is difficult for people to understand the whole thing as it is, so I think they force themselves to cut it up into smaller pieces and understand it.
I think there are limits to what people can do.
Originally there are no boundaries, but the moment you put it into words, you misunderstand that there are boundaries.
There is a boundary called the earth, and it is misunderstood as if it exists.
So, if you understand it with words and logic, you will divide and chop it up and recognize it.
Even though we perceive it as if the boundaries existed from the beginning.
However, I think that knowing with the body means recognizing a continuous thing as it is.
That's why I think it's about savoring something as it is, or rather, recognizing and savoring things that are continuous as they are.
If you leave it alone, the world will be too chopped up and become boring.
I myself want to experience something that is continuous, and I would like to create such an experience.
That's why I want to create an experience that makes me feel like I'm one with the world, and I want to create an experience that makes me feel connected to time.
Maybe that kind of thing isn't that important to other people, but maybe it's important to me, so I made it endlessly, and as a result, it ended up being weird, and it was too weird. It's a world that other people don't know.
It's fun for people to go to a world they don't know.
To be able to affirm the existence of others
(Komi)
Inoko-san's works are not only created by you, but are also created by the presence of others. do you
(Inoko)
All kinds of energy comes from foreign countries, most of the food comes from foreign countries, and I am able to live thanks to a large number of people with whom I have no human relationships anymore. is established, isn't it?
But the city is already so highly developed that you can hardly see it.
I think it's because we can't see, so we misunderstand that we can exist on our own, and that's why our perception is so distorted.
Cities are too complicated to see, and you get confused as if you could live without the presence of others.
On the contrary, when you're in a city, even if you're on a crowded train, the presence of other people can get in the way.
When it comes to art, for example, when you go to see the Mona Lisa, you can't see it because there are so many people in front of you.
That's why you feel in the way.
To put it very simply, being in the city and being disturbed by others is probably similar to seeing the Mona Lisa and being disturbed by others.
To put it more precisely, it's because the presence of others doesn't affect the "Mona Lisa".
If the presence of others makes the "Mona Lisa" look more beautiful, I think it's good that there are others.
Thanks to the presence of many other people, trains run, we can eat rice, and we receive energy from overseas.
However, the city is so complicated that I feel as if it doesn't change with my existence, and I feel like it doesn't change with the existence of others.
That's why I feel like I'm in the way.
It just looks like a hindrance.
(Omi)
It's true that when life becomes too convenient, you can easily get anything, so you can't see the existence of people beyond that.
(Inoko)
If there is someone else in this space, and if the experience changes because of the other person and it is a good experience for me as well, then I feel that I am more affirming that there is another person in the same space. right.
I think that was the case originally.
So, I always think it would be nice to have a space where I can affirm the existence of others.
So here too, the light moves because there are others.
This work is exhibited at Mifuneyama Rakuen in Takeo City, Saga Prefecture, where I interviewed. When people stop moving, light spreads from that place.
When the light comes towards you, you know someone was there where you left off.
(Omi)
When I move and when others move, the light mixes and it's beautiful.
(Inoko)
Yes.
If you're in this place, it wouldn't be so much fun even if your own existence made the light come out.
I can't see it.
Either way, it's fun for others to see.
That's why there's an observatory on top, but it's more fun to look after it opens.
It's like you're completely immersed in the work.
It's physically united.
That's why I wanted to create something in which myself and the work became one, and that work and others became one.
I wanted to create something very positive about being at one with the world with others, and I wanted to create that kind of experience.
(Komi)
You think that art can make people feel connected, not divided.
(Inoko)
That's right.
I think that you can enjoy it without dividing it, and I think it would be nice if I could create something like that.
I want to express continuity
There are also works on display where you can enjoy the continuity.
What they are looking at is a work in which a digital flower blooms and scatters on a huge stone.
It is said to represent life that is born and dies over a long period of time.
(
Omi) That's a really big megalith.
(Inoko)
This is exactly what a gigantic rock is.
I don't know when it fell and how long it's been here since then, but I feel like I have time.
In about an hour, a flower blooms and dies for a year, and then it blooms and dies, and it repeats all the time. I thought.
(Omi)
The fact that today's children are screaming around again is also a kind of historical connection.
I feel like that too.
(Omi)
Could you explain a little more about how you want to express time and how you want to express a connection with a long period of time?
(Inoko)
To change the topic for a moment, I think that people will probably want something more meaningful in the future.
Some simple leisure, not just leisure, but something meaningful.
(Komi) The
meaning of my experience?
(Inoko)
meaning.
So, when I say what it feels like to have meaning, perhaps when people can feel something bigger than their own existence, and moreover, when that existence is positive for them, or when that existence is felt. I think that when you face each other, you feel some kind of meaning.
It could be a majestic landscape created by a special nature that you have never seen before, or some sort of ruins that make you feel an impossible time, or something that an artist has devoted his life to creating. I think that there is some kind of meaning in things like a group of works.
Even though time actually continues endlessly, people cannot perceive a very long time.
However, when you see a magnificent landscape created over a long period of time by some special kind of nature, you may notice the existence of time and be deeply moved by it. I think that the reason why people are moved when they go to a place is because there is a great time there.
I think people will be moved when they realize that there is a time longer than the time they have lived.
I think it would be great if I could make something like that.
Something that makes you aware of the existence of time.
(Omi) You
can feel the existence of a long time.
(Inoko)
That's right.
When I can connect for a long time, I feel that I can fully affirm that I am alive, that others are alive, and that I can fully affirm this world.
It makes me feel happy to be alive.
Life itself is affirmed.
(Omi)
Why do you feel that way?
(Inoko)
Why do you feel that way?
But well, I exist because of my parents, my parents exist because of my parents, and my parents exist because of my parents.
Before I knew it, it had continued since I was an animal.
More to say, it has continued since the time when it was like a water flea, and life has continued without interruption.
Because it doesn't come out of nowhere.
It's been an animal, so it's been around for a long time.
If you thought it existed, that would be something amazing and miraculous.
It's such a blessing to be able to feel that way.
I feel like it's the moment when you can affirm everything in life.
What a joy it is.
(Komi)
When you do that, you may feel like you don't care about the small things you see and worry about every day.
So, after all, I felt that I could understand why I could feel affirmation of the world by being able to feel that I have my present and life in that long time.
(Inoko)
I don't know, and when I put it into words, it sounds really pretty, but I think it's simply the ultimate form of entertainment.
for myself.
The moment when you can fully affirm that you are alive and that everything in this world is alive is ultimately entertainment.
I mean, it's not pretty, it's just plain fun.
The moment you can feel it.
There aren't many moments where you can feel that.
That's why I want to feel as much as possible, and I hope everyone can too.
It's a lot more entertainment than something like a love story or something like that.
(Omi)
Then, what you want people to experience in the works that you continue to create, or rather, the essence of the works is to affirm that they are alive.
(Inoko)
This world.
Well, ultimately yes.
It would be nice if we could affirm that we live in this world, and I think it would be nice if we could enjoy this world more.
If you leave it alone, people will try to understand it with words and logic.
Of course, it's not that it's bad, and it has some good sides, but if you leave it alone, you'll only recognize it with words and logic.
So, every time I recognize it with words and logic, I divide this world.
At the moment of putting it into words, it divides and misunderstands as if there were boundaries.
If you do that, you will be chopped up and this world will become boring.
Perhaps, since ancient times, people tend to be divided and recognized.
I don't know if it was after the birth of words, or because we started to understand things logically, but I think that once people start talking, if we leave it alone, it may divide us.
But that would lead to conflict and destruction, so on the other hand, I think I've been trying hard to sing, dance, and create art.
I feel that by recognizing the world through such things and repeating the experience of enjoying the big picture, I may have been able to shake back something that was too divided.
(Komi)
In a way, it seems that Inoko is trying to challenge the essence of human beings through art.
(Inoko)
I don't think it's that big of a deal, but I think it's a happy thing to recognize the continuity of the world as it is without dividing it. Come on.
I'd like to create a little bit of an overall picture of this world, or maybe a part of the whole, but a bit of a continuum experience.
Phenomena created by the environment into works
Inoko's hometown, Tokushima Prefecture.
When he was young, he saw the whirlpools of the Naruto Strait, and the ever-changing shape of the water made him feel like an unknown creature.
Inoko says that what she is currently interested in is expressing the phenomena that the environment creates in her work.
The vortex was the inspiration for the concept.
In this work, swirling cloud-like masses continue to float in the air.
What Inoko finds in the vortex is the way of life and the possibility of new art.
(Inoko) A
vortex has no structure of its own.
It's obvious, but if you cut the vortex, take it out and put it in a box, it's no longer a vortex.
It's just water and it's liquid.
But a vortex exists in a continuous stream of incoming and outgoing water.
In other words, the flow of water creates a structure called a vortex and maintains the structure.
Human beings are of course like that, and yesterday and today they eat some other life, put it out in the toilet, and exist in the flow of energy.
If you ask me what it is, it's probably almost the same as Naruto's vortex that I just saw. At least life is closer to a vortex than a stone, and at least we are much closer to a vortex than robots.
(Omi)
What do you mean by vortexes and life, or rather humans are close?
(Inoko)
At least life and whirlpools, the existence of "I" is created by the environment.
In other words, the environment continues to create the structure of "I".
continue to maintain
The environment continues to create a vortex.
(Omi)
The current of the sea...
(Inoko)
The whirlpool flow.
In other words, instead of creating “this” (something), we create the environment, and the environment creates existence.
I want to create something like that.
(Komi)
Even in art.
(Inoko)
Even art.
It is fundamentally different from how humans make something (that thing) until now.
I thought that would be very interesting, so I created an environment, and that environment is unique, and because of the special environment, it creates a special phenomenon, and the phenomenon created by the environment itself is the existence of the work.
In other words, I started to think that I wanted to create something like creating an object by creating an environment.
In fact, that cloud work isn't just a lump, it's a phenomenon that creates a special environment and the environment.
Creating such an environment creates existence.
So you started making it with the idea of calling it a work of art.
I feel like I have expanded through the process of creating my own works.
myself too.
I wish I could do that.
(Komi)
I feel that I have expanded myself, so I think the people who see, touch, and experience it will change even a little.
(Inoko)
That's right.
Well, but in the end, it may be that we want to create ourselves, experience it ourselves, and broaden our awareness first.
I want to broaden my view of the world.
I want to see more of the world
(Omi)
Then, new works may be born again.
(Inoko)
That's right.
If I like the experience, I can't help but say, "Look, look."
You say, "Try it, try it."
Because people are like that.
"Interview from here to her art group representative Toshiyuki Inoko" Missed delivery on NHK Plus until 7:53 am on Monday, October 17th
“From here on, Toshiyuki Inoko, representative of the art group”
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