"It's very easy to get to North Korea": ​​Norwegian writer Morten Trovik on stereotypes about the DPRK

- You have published a guide to North Korea.

Why are you, a Norwegian, interested in such a seemingly exotic topic?

How did you decide to go to distant lands and explore the life of the DPRK?

- At first for the same reason as most adventure travelers.

I was curious about what was happening in North Korea.

I thought it was a completely closed country, that it was very, very difficult to get there.

It was difficult - but not

difficult.

And I thought that maybe even a place like North Korea is not as exotic as it seems at first glance. 

- How was your idea treated at home?

We've heard that not everyone in Europe likes your projects.

- Apparently, working with a country like North Korea - which is surrounded by many myths and stereotypes - evokes a lot of strong feelings of people in my home, in Norway ... Especially among people who have never been there - they only know about North Korea through our media and stories.

- Was it difficult to get to the territory of the DPRK?

Did you hide the purpose of your visits from anyone - compiling a guidebook?

- In fact, getting to North Korea as a tourist is very easy.

Almost anyone (and especially Russians!) Can do this under normal circumstances, not in the context of the coronavirus pandemic.

Many travel agencies - both Western and, probably, Russian - are engaged in travel there.

What is much more difficult and requires much more attention and patience is to seriously engage in work in the DPRK, to cooperate with the North Koreans.

As a director, I got the opportunity to develop a series of art projects there, together with North Korean partners.

Much more is required to reach this level of mutual trust.

- How many times have you been to North Korea?

How long did you stay there?

Did you immediately feel "at ease" or did you have to get used to something?

“I've been there about twenty times over the course of six to seven years.

Each time I stayed there for maybe three or four weeks.

Of course, between these visits, I was also constantly in touch with my partners in the North Korean Ministry of Culture.

• © Morten Travik

I think it's not enough to come there one time.

At least for a month, maybe for six months ... it all depends on who you hang out with and what you do there.

For example, diplomats and foreigners who work in different embassies in Pyongyang (I met a lot of them on the spot) seem to me to be very isolated.

Often they know about what is happening in North Korea, maybe less than we, very few people who have the opportunity to really interact with North Korean employees every day.

Being there twenty times over a long period also provided an opportunity to observe how society is changing or not changing in a more general sense. 

- How did the locals meet you?

They willingly came into contact with you, did they open up to you?

- North Koreans are very, very attractive, very friendly.

And it is possible - and even necessary!

- drink with them, celebrate, laugh.

Of course, there are bright boundaries in terms of what you can talk about, joke about.

But everyone knows these boundaries.

If you don't laugh at the leader and the state, you can talk quite freely with ... I wouldn't say with the peasants in the field, because they don't speak English, and my Korean is not that first class.

But anyway.

Building trust, I think, is the most important way to develop knowledge of such a place.

- Did you manage to find friends there?

- I would say that all my cooperation in North Korea with the inhabitants of this country was possible precisely due to the fact that we have developed and strengthened a strong and deep friendship.

Without the trust that was built on the background of this friendship, I have nothing to do there.

One of the main characters in the book, Mr. Win, is the most striking example of this.

But there are others.

- Meeting with whom from the North Koreans will you remember for life?

- With my Korean brother Mr. Win, who, to my great regret, passed away this winter.

Again, I stress that without him and some other brave North Korean artists and diplomats, there would be nowhere to go with my wild invitations like artistic collaboration.

I'm sad that he will never read the book.

But even if he survived, it would be too risky for him.

• © Morten Travik

- Which of the stereotypes about the DPRK can you confidently dispel after twenty visits there?

- I hope one of the stereotypes that my book is capable of destroying is that there is absolutely no humor and normal life in this country.

For me, not only as a director, but also as a writer and a person, it was important to see that even in a society like North Korea, there are ordinary, slightly boring days in the life of citizens.

Behind a stereotype there is always a reality that is more numerous and ambiguous than what will fit in the box of stereotypes.

- Have you found yourself in any awkward situations because of the difference in mentality, cultural differences?

- This happened, of course.

If they were not there, this would mean that I did not correctly approach the task of looking for the boundaries of this possible society.

Some of these situations I do not want to publish for the safety of the North Koreans.

Others I describe in the book - for example, when North Korean border guards opened very unpleasant, mocking Great Leader Kim Jong-un photographs and videotapes on the mobile of a Norwegian photographer on my team.

- What surprised you, struck you the most in this country?

- You know, such a question for many is in itself very provocative.

Many people here, in the West, have heard and read so many bad things about North Korea that it is simply impossible for them to imagine that there could be something good there.

So this is a very interesting question.

I would say that one of the things that I have noticed and appreciate in North Korean society is a kind of sense of solidarity and community.

These things have positive and negative sides.

One might say that solidarity and the ability to help another person are positive traits, but the night side of this phenomenon is repressiveness.

So every human ability depends on the context.

But this real sense of the team, which we lost in the West, remains a nostalgic thing for us.

The same is for you in Russia, I think.

A lot for someone.

For those who do not want to turn into the Soviet Union, but still feel that it was not only bad.

And looking for and observing these nuances is one of the main reasons why I decided to write this book about North Korea.

- Is it possible to say that in some personal characteristics the inhabitants of the DPRK outperform the Europeans?

What can we learn from the Koreans?

- I would not say "win" - this is not a competition.

But without a doubt, I believe that the ability of the North Korean population to continue to persevere under a strict regime, internal dire circumstances and external blockades and boycotts is a virtue.

Even a kind of heroism.