China News Service, Wuyishan, Fujian, March 25th: Who is called the "Second Confucius" in the West?
——Exclusive interview with Zhu Jieren, tenured professor at the Institute of Ancient Books, East China Normal University
Author Long Minwen Longjie Wang Zonghan
Zhu Xi was the only person who was not a direct disciple of Confucius and was worshiped in the Confucius Temple. He was honored as "Zhu Zi". Zhu Xi is another representative figure of Confucianism after Confucius. He has made significant contributions to the development of Confucianism. Zhu Xi's studies are also influential in many countries.
Why is Zhu Zi known as the "Second Confucius" in the West? How to tell the story of Zhu Xi well to the world? China News Service's "East-West Question" conducted an exclusive interview with Zhu Jieren, a tenured professor at the Institute of Ancient Books of East China Normal University who attended the first Wuyi Forum, to explain.
The interview transcript is summarized as follows:
China News Service reporter: Why is it said that Chinese Confucianism accepted by the West is inseparable from Zhu Xi's interpretation?
Zhu Jieren:
Western missionaries came to China and did a very important thing, which was to introduce Chinese Confucianism to the West. But people have overlooked a question: When missionaries introduced Chinese Confucianism to the West, what basis did they base it on? People only know that missionaries spread Confucian thought to the West, but they do not know that when missionaries read Confucian classics, they must be inseparable from Zhu Xi's interpretation. Without Zhu Xi's explanation, it would be difficult for missionaries to have a deep understanding of the original Confucian classics. Therefore, I have always had a view that the Chinese Confucianism accepted by the West is actually Confucianism reinterpreted and transformed by Zhu Xi, which is the so-called "Neo-Confucianism". Only through the "bridge" of Zhu Xi can Westerners enter Confucian thought.
On January 1, 2018, Fujian Zhenghe Zhuzi Academy held an inauguration ceremony for the statue of Zhu Wengong. Zhenghe County is the ancestral home of Zhu Zi, the birthplace of Zhu Zi, and the first stop for the Zhu family to enter Fujian. Photo by Zhang Bin
Reporter from China News Service: Why is it so important to say that Zhu Xi maintained the "orthodoxy" of Confucianism?
Zhu Jieren:
Confucius’ original Confucianism rarely paid attention to the two issues of the origin of the universe and the origin of human nature. This is not because Confucius did not pay attention to them, but because the “task” assigned to him by the times was to “ruminate the country and bring peace to the world”, so he had no time to take it into consideration. For example, when dealing with ghosts and gods, Confucius said, "Keep a distance from them with respect" and "The Master does not speak of strange powers that confuse the gods." When dealing with life and death, Confucius said, "If you don't know life, how can you know death?"
The problems that Confucius did not solve left huge ideological and theoretical space for Buddhism that was later introduced to China. The so-called "reincarnation", the so-called "heaven and hell", and the so-called "emptiness" have easily captured the minds of ordinary people and intellectuals. Therefore, many intellectuals have believed in Buddhism since the Tang and Song Dynasties. By the Song Dynasty, among the "Five Sons of the Northern Song Dynasty", except for the "Second Cheng" Cheng Hao and Cheng Yi, the philosophical thoughts of the other "Three Sons" Zhou Dunyi, Shao Yong and Zhang Zai were more or less influenced by Buddhism.
Zhu Zi himself was a Buddhist in his early years. The article he wrote when he took the provincial examination was based on Buddhist theory, and he got first place. It was not until he became a Jinshi and met Li Dong that he realized that Confucianism was the authentic thought of the Chinese nation and determined to fight to defend the subjectivity of Chinese local thought and culture. Through unremitting efforts, he constructed an independent and complete philosophical system of thought that can dialogue with Buddhism on an equal footing.
In March 2021, tourists visited the "Zhu Xi Garden" in Wuyi Mountain. Photo by Wang Dongming
China News Service Reporter: How did Zhu Xi’s teachings “spread eastward”? What is its development status in Japan and South Korea?
Zhu Jieren:
Zhu Xi’s teachings mainly relied on the exchanges of monks to spread eastward. In this process, monks were equivalent to the role of “students abroad”. Zhu Xi's teachings generally cultivated and trained the Chinese people's way of thinking, and his own writings were full of speculative theoretical brilliance. This was easily accepted by Buddhist monks, who brought a large number of Zhu Xi's works back to their home countries.
There are many devout Zhu Xi scholars in Japan, and their writings are very rich. For example, Zhu Zi believed that those under 15 years old should go to "primary school" to learn the basic principles of life, so he wrote "Primary School". Many Chinese people don't know this book, but in Japan, there are dozens of books devoted to this book. "Elementary School" teaches people the principles of life and basic behavioral norms and rules, which is valued by the Japanese.
Korean scholars have made many contributions to the study of Zhu Xixue. During the Joseon Dynasty, Zhuxue was clearly defined as the official philosophy and became the mainstream ideology. There are many academies in Korea, and they mainly focus on reading Zhu Xi’s books. Korean scholars are even better than Chinese scholars in some aspects of Zhu Xi's research, such as specializing in the "Four Ends and Seven Emotions".
In March 2014, tourists visited Dosan Academy in Andong City, Gyeongsangbuk-do, South Korea. Yi Hwang, the leader of Korean Confucianism and a minister in the middle period of Joseon, educated Confucian students here during his lifetime. He developed the philosophy of Zhu Xi, inherited the teachings of Wang Yangming of the Ming Dynasty of China, and founded the Tuixi School. Photo by Pan Xulin
Reporter from China News Service: What enlightenment does Zhu Zixue have on global governance?
Zhu Jieren:
Zhu Zi’s statement of preserving natural principles and eliminating human desires has been criticized. In fact, people have misunderstood this statement. The "human desires" here do not refer to people's normal physiological and life desires, but to excessive and contrary desires, such as greed, possessiveness, selfishness and other concepts. Zhu Zi believed that there is an objective "natural law" in the world, but once people are blinded and polluted by selfish desires, they will do evil and violate this "natural law", so they must "preserve the natural law."
For countries, the significance of "preserving natural principles" lies in advocating that all countries, regardless of size, strength or weakness, are equal, respect each other's core interests and major concerns, respect the diversity of world civilizations and national development paths, and respect peace and harmony. We must uphold the right of people of all countries to choose their own social systems, oppose all forms of hegemonism and power politics, and must not kidnap or endanger the world with the selfish desires of one country.
At the same time, Zhu Xi’s emphasis on “seeking peace of mind” is also of great benefit to global governance. When Zhu Xi gave lectures to the monarch, he warned that if the monarch's heart is not on the correct track of Confucianism, he will not be able to govern the country well. Therefore, the chaos in the country is caused by the "wrong hearts" of the leaders, and many of the problems that arise in current international relations are also caused by the "wrong hearts" of leaders and politicians in some countries.
In September 2017, tourists visited Wuyi Jingshe, the most prestigious academy in Wuyi Mountain, Fujian. Zhu Xi founded Wuyi Jingshe in 1183 as a place for him to write books, advocate Taoism and give lectures. Photo by Zhang Bin
China News Service Reporter: Why is Zhu Zi considered another representative figure of Confucianism after Confucius?
Zhu Jieren:
It can be said that Zhu Zi was the Confucius of his time. When Wuyi Mountain was applying for a world cultural and natural heritage, the local people introduced Zhu Zi and Zhu Zixue to the United Nations experts who came to Wuyi Mountain, but the experts did not understand. A Japanese expert asked, are you talking about Zhu Xi? After receiving a positive reply, the Japanese expert said that it turned out that you were talking about "post-Confucius". It can be seen that this title is recognized overseas. This fact is enough to prove that Zhu Xi is another representative figure of Confucianism after Confucius, and the understanding at home and abroad is consistent.
Reporter from China News Service: In what aspects should we focus on telling the story of Zhu Xi to the world?
Zhu Jieren:
We can draw on Zhu Xi’s inclusiveness, which still has methodological implications for current international communication. Whether it is Buddhism, Taoism, or previous generations or the same period, Zhu Zixue absorbed the outstanding achievements of advanced cultures of different categories and eras at that time. Zhu Zi did not blindly reject foreign cultures, but selectively learned their strengths and did not accept their erroneous views. A Taiwanese scholar specializes in studying the "Collected Annotations of Four Books on Chapters and Sentences" and found that Zhu Xi quoted more than 40 of his contemporaries' annotations.
The discourse system established by Zhu Xi can cover almost all aspects of Western philosophy. There is a clear example where he proposed the "Gongfu Theory", which is unique to China's Confucian philosophy.
The Chinese emphasize personal inner growth and change, and this can only be achieved through "working hard." Zhu Xi talked about a lot of "gong fu theory" principles, which are not available in foreign philosophies. Foreign philosophy is outward-facing, but Chinese philosophy, in addition to being outward-looking, is also very important to be inward-cultivation and self-cultivation. And this requires "work."
In October 2020, Kaoting Academy in Jianyang District, Nanping City, Fujian Province held a ceremony to commemorate Zhu Zi. At the ceremony, "Zhu Zi's Family Instructions" was displayed. Photo by Chen Qihui
Zhu Zi believed that the thoughts of the sages were not profound. What they talked about were daily practices. The so-called "the road is not far away from people" is the idea of "learning from the bottom to the top". This also provides inspiration for us to use Zhu Xi’s thoughts to “turn the people into customs”.
If we use keywords to summarize the motivation for telling Zhu Zi’s story to the world, it can be summarized as the two keywords of “post-Confucius” and “Zhu Zi belongs to the world.”
But telling the story of Zhu Xi to the world also faces certain difficulties. An American professor once said that Zhu Zixue is a good medicine that can cure modern diseases in the West. However, the main force in studying Zhu Xixue in the United States is university scholars, and the public has little understanding of Zhu Xixue. Europe is probably in the same situation. There are churches and other places to spread Christianity in the West, but there is no suitable place to spread Zhu Xixue abroad. Moreover, Zhu Xi's knowledge was very profound. The length of his treatises and the difficulty of translating them into ancient Chinese also had a certain impact on the spread of Zhu Xi's studies in the West.
Faced with these difficulties, I agree with a sentence in the "Book of Rites", "If you hear the rites, you will learn them; if you don't hear them, you will teach them." Culture cannot go abroad if you want to, it also needs to rely on strong comprehensive national strength. I think the ancients probably thought a little deeper than us in this regard.
In October 2018, in Wuyishan, Fujian, descendants of Zhu Xi in Korea recited "Zhu Xi's Family Instructions". Photo by Zhang Lijun
China News Service Reporter: After decades of studying Zhu Xi’s theory, what do you think you benefited the most from? Why did you ask your son to bring a copy of "Collected Commentary on Chapters and Sentences of the Four Books" when his son went to study in the United States?
Zhu Jieren:
What benefited me most from Zhu Zixue was that it changed my temperament. My old friends all know that I had a hot temper when I was young. After reading more Zhu Zi's books, my personality became gentler. But I feel it's still not enough. Sometimes I still get angry and lose control. I believe that when reading Zhu Zi's books, one should not be a "surgeon" and always use a scalpel to "operate" on others. One must "operate" on oneself, learn to be one's own, and be considerate to oneself, only then can one truly learn from Zhu Zi well and master it.
When my son went to study in the United States, I gave him a copy of Zhu Xi's "Collected Commentary on Chapters and Sentences of the Four Books". I said you should read this book every day. It is the "Bible" of the Chinese people. I told him that reading Zhu Xi’s books will benefit him throughout his life. (over)
Interviewee profile:
Zhu Jieren, a tenured professor and doctoral supervisor at East China Normal University, enjoys special allowances from the State Council. The mountain chief of Ziyang Academy and Kaoting Academy. Honorary president of the Chinese Historical Literature Research Association, honorary president of the Shanghai Confucianism Research Association, and the 29th generation grandson of Zhu Xi. Main research fields: classical philology, Confucian classics, and Zhu Xi studies. He has been engaged in the research and organization of Zhu Xi and Zhu Xi studies for many years and is an authority in this field. The Complete Book of Zhu Xi, which he co-edited, was nominated for the National Book Award.