China News Service, Beijing, January 31st: Why do Confucius and Plato both focus on "virtue"?
——Exclusive interview with Fang Zhaohui, Professor of History, School of Humanities, Tsinghua University
Author An Yingzhao Xu Xueying
In the "Axial Age" more than two thousand years ago, both Confucius and Plato regarded "virtue" as the key point of life. Confucius advocated "aim for Tao and base on virtue", and Plato believed that citizens should possess the "four great virtues". The two of them can be said to be in the same mind, which also confirms Confucius' famous saying - "virtue is not alone, there must be neighbors."
"Confucius and Plato have great similarities in academic motivation and academic ideological content." Fang Zhaohui, professor of the History Department of the School of Humanities at Tsinghua University, said in an exclusive interview with China News Service's "East-West Question" that the two sages from the East and the West both They have a very strong tendency to manage the world through academics, and they also attach great importance to the improvement of moral character. They not only regard it as the personal purpose of life, but also regard it as the foundation for the rise and fall of the country and the order of the world. At the same time, the two men's approaches to discussing "virtue" are quite different, which can also provide a glimpse of the underlying logic of the future differences between Chinese and Western scholarship.
Video: [East-West Question] Fang Zhaohui: What is the difference between Confucius and Plato in their emphasis on "virtue"?
Source: China News Network
The interview transcript is summarized as follows:
Reporter from China News Service: In the newly revised edition of "Chinese and Western Learning", you mentioned that both Plato and Confucius paid great attention to virtue. Why did the Eastern and Western sages of the "Axial Age" unanimously pay attention to virtue? What are the similarities between the "great virtues of the world" advocated by Confucius and the "four great virtues" advocated by Plato?
Fang Zhaohui:
"The Analects" records that Confucius advocated "aiming for Tao and basing oneself on virtue", and lamented that "I have never seen anyone who loves virtue as much as lust" and "there are very few people who know virtue." Plato emphasized in "The Republic" that citizens should possess the "four virtues" of wisdom, courage, temperance and justice.
Confucius and Plato stood at the axis of Chinese and Western culture respectively, and their thoughts had a decisive impact on the development of Chinese and Western scholarship for more than two thousand years. At almost the same period, the founders of sage thought in China and ancient Greece both paid attention to moral issues, but there were important differences in the historical background of the two.
The ancient Greek world consisted of hundreds of city-states, which fought many wars with each other. In particular, the Peloponnesian War completely exposed many political problems in Athenian society. Plato's talk about virtue was largely based on reflection and criticism of the democratic system prevailing in Athens and the entire Greek society at that time. His teacher Socrates was sentenced to death and was a victim of the weaknesses of the democratic system. Plato deeply felt the restlessness, populist tendencies and emotions of city-states under a democratic political system. Without the leadership of virtuous elites, they would go in the opposite direction.
The background of Confucius's talk about virtue was that the unified political system of the Western Zhou Dynasty collapsed and the original aristocratic hereditary system began to decline. Confucius talked about virtue, to a large extent, in view of the hereditary system of nobility, which is not conducive to the selection and training of talents, and mainly emphasized the improvement of the ruler's own quality. Since then, Confucianism has attached great importance to virtue for thousands of years and advocated governing the country with virtue. However, Western philosophers after Plato did not necessarily attach importance to virtue, but carried forward the cognitivist tendency in Plato's philosophy.
The ethics of Aristotle, a student of Plato, is generally called virtue ethics, but in Aristotle, it is only a branch of political science and is not placed in the position of first philosophy. In other words, in Aristotle's view, ethics is a science that objectively studies virtues, and his emphasis on the practical value of virtues should be far less than Plato's.
On the surface, the "will and virtue" advocated by Confucius and the "four great virtues" advocated by Plato have many similarities, such as bravery, wisdom, and justice. However, Plato's approach to discussing this issue in "The Republic" is actually very different from Confucius's. When Confucius talked about virtue, he wanted to provide a set of feasible and operable methods, that is, how to cultivate virtue. But when Plato talks about virtue, it is closer to a universal thing in a purely intellectual sense. The discussion between Socrates and his disciples in "The Republic" is more of a metaphysical, abstract, speculative discussion of universal concepts and universal definitions, which may not necessarily have much influence on how to cultivate virtue in real life. The role, though Plato's primary concern, is also to cultivate character as Confucius did.
Shandong clay pottery craftsmen make statues of Confucius. Photo by Liu Mingxiang
Reporter from China News Service: You mentioned in your book that the virtues taught by Plato are mostly based on "seeking truth", while Confucianism represented by Confucius is based on "seeking responses". In what ways will this difference lead to the differences between middle school and Western learning in the future? Why did it occur?
Fang Zhaohui:
If we look at ancient Chinese learning from the three schools of Confucianism, Taoism, and Buddhism, they all have the pursuit of good as their main purpose. The first is to seek good, and the second is to apply it. The so-called practicality is to solve practical problems in life. On the one hand, it is the construction of everyone's spiritual beliefs, soul settlement, values, and outlook on life. On the other hand, it is the governance of the country, so it is very pragmatic. This spirit of seeking goodness and utility can be found in many human civilizations, but each civilization may have different paths, and the ideological systems, ideologies, and religions they have formed may also be different.
The Greeks uniquely developed the pursuit of truth and knowledge to the extreme, seeking knowledge for the sake of truth, and seeking truth for the sake of knowledge. According to the Greeks, philosophy was the methodological foundation of all sciences. Until the 20th century, the Western philosopher Heidegger still emphasized that the wisdom of philosophy lies in its "science of science."
This spirit of seeking knowledge and seeking truth often escapes the practical needs of life. Plato once believed that only by establishing knowledge (science) about the nature of virtue can we truly possess virtue. But Aristotle discovered that knowledge or science (ethics) about the nature of virtue may not necessarily help people actually establish virtue. The establishment of virtue requires practice and cultivation. Just like throwing a stone into the sky ten thousand times, the stone will not learn to fly to the sky automatically.
If human knowledge is divided into three areas: truth, goodness, and beauty, then ancient Chinese knowledge belongs to the broad type of seeking goodness, while Western philosophy and humanities and social sciences belong to the broad type of seeking truth. This is also the main reason why I use "seeking truth" and "seeking response", "knowing" and "doing" to distinguish Western learning from middle school in the book.
A statue of Plato from the Louvre Museum on display at the Capital Museum in Beijing. Photo by Zhong Xin
Reporter from China News Service: You pointed out that if you compare Chinese and Western learning, the most comparable one is the Hebrew tradition represented by Christianity, which is what you call seeking goodness. Why is it more comparable?
Fang Zhaohui:
Confucianism is essentially a spiritual belief tradition. If we are unwilling to call it a religion, I would rather use the expression "closer" to religion rather than philosophy. First of all, one of the most important characteristics of religious traditions is that spiritual beliefs are at the core. This is true for Buddhism, Judaism, and Christianity, as well as Confucianism, which has its own beliefs, such as belief in the way of heaven, heavenly principles, or "the king of heaven and earth, the master, the master," etc.
Secondly, religion has eternal and unchanging "scriptures", while philosophy has classics but no scriptures. The scriptures are different from the classics. Classics are classics, such as the works of sages such as Plato and Aristotle; they are called bible and canon by Christians and are eternal. Classics can be criticized, denied, and overturned, but classics cannot be overturned or negated. Whether Confucianism talks about the "Six Arts", the "Four Books and the Five Classics", or later the "Thirteen Classics", they are all called "Classics". Buddhism also has "eternal sutras" such as the Tripitaka, the Diamond Sutra, the Avatamsaka Sutra, and the Heart Sutra.
Thirdly, another big difference between religion, philosophy, and science is that religion should provide the ultimate settlement and destination for people's lives, while philosophy and science take pleasure in seeking knowledge. Confucianism talks about settling down, cultivating peace and harmony, and the unity of man and nature, which all refer to the ultimate spiritual destination of man. Confucianism and other religions all give clear answers in this regard, although their answers are different.
Again, religion attaches great importance to etiquette and rules, sometimes called rules and regulations. It is not a purely theoretical thing, but is sometimes mandatory and must be implemented for beginners. The "Three Rites" of Confucianism, namely "Zhou Rites", "Rituals" and "Book of Rites", many of which are similar to the rules and precepts.
Finally, another very important difference between philosophy and religion is that philosophy is characterized by rational speculation, while religion is characterized by hard practice. In Chinese history, Taoism has internal and external elixirs, Buddhism has retreat practice, and Confucianism has cultivation of character.
We know that Confucianism has placed the cultivation of Kung Fu in a supreme position for thousands of years. Confucius discussed knowledge with his contemporaries and believed that true knowledge is not about learning and being rich, but about being a good person. "Xue" appears in many articles in "The Analects of Confucius". For example, "Gong Ai of Lu asked: 'Who among the disciples is eager to learn?' Confucius replied: 'Those who have a good appearance are eager to learn, do not express anger, and do not make mistakes.'" This reflects that the core quality of Confucianism is based on Kung Fu, the so-called practice. shoe. These all reflect the religious nature of Confucianism.
People often say that Confucianism is a philosophy, as if one does not recognize it as a philosophy, then one is inferior to Westerners. But in fact, as a kind of knowledge, Confucianism is generally closer in form to Western religions (Christianity, Judaism, etc.) than to philosophy. And admitting this will not prevent us from studying Confucianism from a philosophical perspective, just as some people study Christianity from a philosophical perspective.
In September 2023, the a cappella suite "Excerpts from "The Analects of Confucius" based on "The Analects of Confucius" will premiere at Peking University. Photo by Jia Tianyong
China News Service reporter: You mentioned in your book that the integration between ancient Chinese academic traditions and modern Western academics should be more at the practical level. How to promote better integration of the two at the practical level?
Fang Zhaohui:
To give a very simple example, if you are a physicist and love music very much. When you are engaged in physics research, you should strictly follow the methods of physics; when you love music, you should strictly follow the methods of music; in this way, in real life, the two will naturally collide in the soul. For example, Einstein loved music very much and was a violinist, but he probably did not invent a theoretical system that combined music theory with the theory of relativity in physics. It is said that violin playing inspired his physics research, which is a combination in a practical sense.
When Newton believed in Christianity, he prayed in the way of believers, but when doing scientific research, he strictly followed the methodology of physics. Newton believed that he had received great inspiration from the Christian faith, which inspired his enthusiasm for scientific research. Regardless of whether his Christianity was questionable, in practice his faith gave impetus to his physics research. This combination does not require first developing a theoretical system that combines Christianity and physics.
Humanities, social sciences, natural sciences, these later sciences all developed from philosophy, and were all driven by the spiritual power of seeking truth and knowledge. In the same way, believing in Confucianism and cultivating one's character can make our mind more peaceful and beneficial to scientific research. This is the combination in practice. (over)
Interviewee profile:
Fang Zhaohui was born in Songyang, Anhui Province. Professor and doctoral supervisor in the Department of History, School of Humanities, Tsinghua University, PhD in Philosophy, Fudan University. He has been working at Tsinghua University since 1996. He was a senior visiting scholar in the Department of East Asian Languages and Civilizations at Harvard University (2003.9-2004.6), a visiting researcher at Seoul National University in South Korea (2008.9-2009.8), a visiting professor at Foguang University in Taiwan (2006.4-5), and part-time work including a director of the International Confucian Federation (2014 (since 2020), Director of the Confucius Society of China (since 2015), Taishan Scholar of Shandong Province (since 2020), Distinguished Expert of the Confucius Institute (since 2020), etc.