Professor John Esposito discusses "The Globalization of Islamophobia": This is how I moved from Catholic theology to Islam studies

In the dialogue among civilizations and understanding between Muslims and Christians, John Esposito is one of the pioneers of contemporary Islam studies, since the publication of his book "Islam and Politics" in 1984 and "Islam: The Straight Path" in 1988 and their wide spread, he has been at the forefront of religious dialogue and cultural exchange.

Esposito cemented this prestige by presiding over the editing of the Oxford Encyclopedia of the Modern Islamic World, The Oxford History of Islam, the Oxford Dictionary of Islam, the Oxford Encyclopedia of Islam, the Six World Volumes, and other intellectual and academic works, most of which are on religion, Islam and Islamophobia.

Professor of Religion, International Affairs, and Islamic Studies at Georgetown University, John Esposito, is founding director of the Prince Alwaleed Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at the Walsh School of Foreign Service, former president of the American Academy of Religion and the Association for Middle Eastern Studies in North America, and former advisor to the U.S. Department of State.

In the first episode of its new show, Al Jazeera English met with the American academic to discuss the impact of Islam on the United States, and was interviewed by Al Jazeera English website director Secret Salam on a variety of topics ranging from the reasons behind his interest and passion for Islam, his role in advising US President Joe Biden when he was a senator, the Islamic origins of some of the most common traditions in Europe and the United States, and the phenomenon of the "globalization of Islamophobia", to dialogue:

• Nice to see you again.

Thank you.. I'm glad to be here.

• You have long experience, more than 40 years.

Laughing.. Yes, actually about 50 years old, but I don't want to discuss that because it will reveal my age.

John Esposito speaking to Al Jazeera on the influence of Islam on the United States (Al Jazeera)

• Your career has been dedicated to promoting understanding of Islam and Muslims, and you are very excited about it. Why have you devoted all these years to this work?

That was the question I asked when I was in graduate school. The director of the department said that I had to take a course on Islam, and I wondered why?! I was studying for a doctorate in Catholic theology, but then I became fascinated by Hinduism, and I was going to do my doctorate there.

Then the head of the department asked me three times to study Islam, and I was surprised because I had no research interest in Islam. I watched a film called Exodus, the author of which was a famous author, and I thought he was a historian, and based on this film I thought of taking one course in Islamic studies.

Exodus (1960) (Al Jazeera)

I was in a Christian monastery for several years. I was not ordained a priest, but I spent between the ages of 14 and 24 in the Franciscan Capuchin Order (a monastic order in the Italian Catholic tradition based on the spirituality of Saint Francis), knowing the Jewish and Christian traditions, but suddenly I found myself in a course that taught Islam without introductions. In the United States, Islam courses were in the same category as Hinduism and Buddhism, meaning you have Judeo-Christian studies, and studies of other religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.).

Suddenly, I stopped and said: Wait a minute, this is a religion that recognizes revelation and recognizes the prophets of the Old Testament, and recognizes the prophecy of Jesus Christ, not as the Son of God, but as a prophet sent, a religion that venerates Mary but has a whole surah in her name, so that Mary appears much more in the Qur'an than in the New Testament.

And then I looked at history, and I said I think – academically at least – we're looking at a Jewish-Christian-Muslim tradition, and that's where I started.

There were no job opportunities in this field, so my colleagues were literally telling me: Why do you go into this mantra field?! Others said you would never get a job, but I was hired to a job teaching world religions (in general). I didn't study Islam until the Iranian revolution (1989), so I say that I owe my profession to Ayatollah Khomeini and the Iranian revolution, I think this is the key from which my professional passion came.

Before Samuel Huntington, Edward Said in his book Covering Islam (1981) talked about something happening in America related to Islam as a negative feeling, and then ended up saying, "This is not really what Islam is," that's just how it is framed and portrayed, and this can lead to a "clash of civilizations."

Muslims in different parts of the world were only seen as Egyptians or Lebanese (e.g.), and they were very invisible in the United States, especially with so few mosques, however, there was a ready-made idea that this negative stereotype was the reality of what their religion looked like.

I also spoke about the turning point regarding the idea of a clash of civilizations by Samuel Huntington (an American thinker and academic), which also laid the foundation for framing Islam as a real threat to the West.

You know (Palestinian-American thinker) Edward Said, who appeared right after the Iranian revolution, but most people didn't notice him then.

In a book called "Covering Islam," Said spoke in 1981 about something happening in America related to Islam as a negative feeling, and then ended by saying, "This is not really what Islam is," that's just how it is framed and portrayed, and this could lead to a "clash of civilizations."

Then, in 1993, Huntington published an article titled "The Clash of Civilizations," and now everyone attributes this idea to Huntington, and sees him as the one who came up with it.

• I recently read an interesting piece of information that the graduation gown and hat have their roots in Islamic universities in the ninth century, when the elites of Europe were studying in these universities, and when they returned home, they wore the dress and flat cover that symbolizes the Qur'an as the highest form of knowledge, and even the thread hanging from it represents the reference in the Qur'an. I mean that the Islamic intellectual heritage really influenced something common that students still practice when they graduate. What does that say about the influence of Islam on Western civilization and world thought?

The model of universities is inspiring in many ways, as the first universities in the Islamic world included student housing, and one prominent Islamic scholar said: During the Dark Ages, if you are on another planet and look down, the West is invisible, and the Islamic world is prominent. In that era, the fields of philosophy, medicine, algebra, etc. shone and then transferred to the West.

For example, I have studied Catholic theology in many places, but very few have spoken of the fact that Thomas Aquinas, who used to be seen as a great Catholic theologian, influenced his teacher by the philosophical sciences that have passed to the West, as has happened in the fields of medicine, science and technology.

• One of your colleagues at Georgetown once told me that even Thomas Jefferson was influenced by John Locke, who was influenced by the Muslim philosopher Ibn Tufail. So why don't we learn these things in schools?

That's changing now. In the United States, for example, you didn't have a chance to see all of this unless you were studying at a religious university or a religious department, but now that knowledge is available in different places. But how do you get it into schools?

Now we provide and fund an educational program, and if you go to our website, you will find a woman who offers these courses to high school teachers, so that they can bring that knowledge to the classroom. Therefore, it is no longer surprising that students who have learned about Islam and Islamic history come in their courses, and some have had the opportunity to study Arabic, and although this is still far from the mainstream, I did not see it in the 1993-1996 students when I first went to Georgetown.

The history of Islam in America is invisible, and some of the Muslim slaves who came early were unable to maintain their faith.

• What about the presence of Islam in America and the influence of black Muslims on American culture in particular? Islam is not something that happened in the sixties with immigration, it is an American story like the story of Native America, right?

This part of American history is often "invisible." In general, talking about Muslims in America has always dealt with topics such as: When did Muslims from abroad come to America?

For example, there are many slaves who were Muslims when they came, and over time, many of them were unable to maintain their faith, and there was some kind of attempt to convert them from Islam.

Much of this has been forgotten, so that in recent years just with the rise of the Nation of Islam and Muhammad Ali, for example, has increased the sense of their early presence, although we still forget this when talking about Muslims in America, and forget that nearly a third of the population in the United States is African Americans or black.

• And they had a profound impact on culture, like blues and hip-hop as you know, there are a lot of Islamic tunes as well. I think it's important to mention that too?

But I'm bad at hip-hop, I tried and didn't succeed.

• What about how geopolitics affects the spread of Islamophobia? You know, I've seen the rise of Islamophobia in many ways after September 11 and the war on terror. But now many international circumstances have changed, such as the rise of China and the withdrawal from Afghanistan. What has changed geopolitically?

Well, what we find really frustrating is that although the proportions of Americans — and others in other countries — who understand Islam have improved, I don't think the "globalization of Islamophobia" is over.

I was at a conference, and someone from Poland stood up and said, "The good news is that we don't have a lot of Muslims, and the bad news is that we suffer from Islamophobia. A prominent Australian professor said the same thing.

America's first major publication dealing with Islamophobia was in 2010, when we had a Time magazine cover that said, "Is America anti-Islamic?" What I realized years ago in the past was that this wasn't far away, things didn't get better, you know, they were getting worse.

When you look at the Biden administration's policies, it's sad to say that from my perspective, there is little difference in its approach to the Middle East or the Muslim world.

• What about the U.S. political environment? During the Trump years, there was an anti-Islam industry in the White House. What's the shift in the Biden administration now? Because obviously the rhetoric has changed, but what about policies?

When you look at the policies of the Biden administration, unfortunately, it is sad to say that – from my point of view – there is not much difference in terms of its approach to the Middle East or the Muslim world, it has named a senior official in the government, Rashad Hussein (ambassador for international religious freedom), but this change is not noticed in its policies, nor in the statements it makes, and there is no major shift.

• You advised Biden, didn't you?

I advised him after Sept. 11, when he was chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, what I discovered with Biden was not unusual.

After September 11, a number of senators asked me to have some conversations, and what I discovered in those days was that the Middle East was not taken seriously. Most senators or congressmen had someone among their staff to deal with the Middle East, so they relied on that person reporting to them. So when I met President Biden, he was open to wanting to understand the Middle East, but he was an expert in Europe, he said, and especially in France.

But that all changed dramatically after September 11, and paved the way for the problem we knew. President George W. Bush went to a mosque and made a very nice statement. But on the other hand, we invaded Iraq and said it was to "liberate" it, but we were occupying it.

• For years, there have been rumors about your identity or religious attitude.

Laughing.. We should never have had breakfast together.

• I wonder: is there something you want to share with us?

Yes, I was saying that I would explain it, I was invited to do a program in the UAE with some representatives of the British government and Muslims, involving old and young, and government agencies. It was a closed session not available for publication. I was tired, they asked me at the last speech, I was the last speaker, and I decided I didn't want to talk. I looked into the audience's eyes and said I knew there were a lot of questions about me in terms of who I was. Some people think I'll get out of the closet at some point and say I was a Muslim all along.

• How do you feel about this observation?

I feel privileged, because at a certain level they mean that I understand Islam well, and I have credibility.

• One last question as a plusper in the study of religion and spirituality: we haven't been able to delve too deep into your own background, but I wonder what do you think happens after we die?

Well, laughs, I think those I don't like will go to hell. And I'm worried about those who no longer believe in hell, because I kind of want to say: after we die, I think there's another life.

I believe that those who live a good life, benevolent, whatever their faith, and even if they are not believers, if they live a good life, I believe that they will be at peace and there (in the afterlife). You know, there will be life, and if I get the chance one night I'm going to show you in the middle of the night and say, hello, I'm calling from upstairs, and I just want to tell you, I was right, I was right.