Tunisia -
The leader of the Ennahda movement, Rashid Ghannouchi, said in an exclusive interview with Al Jazeera Net that he is determined to give up the leadership of the movement at the next conference and will not renew his candidacy, stressing that his party does not seek to overthrow the regime of President Qais Saeed to return to power.
Ghannouchi stressed that the Salvation Front, of which the Ennahda movement is its largest component, is preparing to engage in major protests on October 15, coinciding with the celebration of the Independence Day, criticizing what he considered a "coup" against democracy through President Kais Saied's insistence on organizing custom-made legislative elections. to exclude parties.
He considered that the security investigations with him in cases related to money laundering, terrorism, and deportation to hotbeds of tension were an attempt by the Qais Saeed regime in order to transform the file of the Ennahda movement from a political file that is dealt with by political means such as elections;
To a security and terrorist file in order to facilitate its removal from the political arena and its removal under judicial and security pretexts.
Here is the conversation:
The opposition Salvation Front, which represents the largest political component of the Ennahda movement, is preparing to protest, coinciding with the Liberation Day, to protest in the capital on October 15.
What does this timing mean?
The Feast of Evacuation is an important occasion in Tunisia's history, which is the expulsion of the last French soldier from Tunisian soil.
If national independence was achieved in 1956, we stayed until 1963 to complete the elements of independence.
Even if this occasion was not on the way, we were preparing to organize a big demonstration, and this was intended to remind people of the old colonialism and also of the new colonialism or internal occupation, ie dictatorship.
There was injustice during colonialism and there was liberation, and today there is injustice and liberation is required.
What is the benefit of these protests?
Do you think it will be impressive?
Every people has developed its experience in resisting oppression, especially when the state's oppression reaches its climax.
The summary of the Tunisian experience in resisting tyranny is that when the rulers' oppression reaches its peak, people go out to demonstrate in the streets.
We want to send a message to President Qais Saeed that his policy is rejected and that the generation that was influenced by the principles of the revolution 10 years ago and opened to rights and freedoms will not accept the return of the one system or the rule of the individual.
But in the past you have organized similar protests, but nothing has changed.
Is not it right?
We have not yet reached the level of outcry, but I expect it will.
One year after the coup on July 25, 2021, we were protesting alone in the square and we said that this is a coup that we will resist and it is not a correction to the course of the revolution. Today, many parties are demonstrating against the president, who is alone without rallies supporting him, and even the parties that supported the course of July 25 / July 2021 shook her hand from the president.
Some believe that the Ennahda movement has lost its ability to mobilize the street and that it is playing on people's pain due to the difficult economic and social conditions in order to push them to protest against the president.
What is your comment?
This is an incorrect estimate because the street has moved since the announcement of the July 25, 2021 coup, when we went to Parliament and found a tank blocking the road.
We entered Parliament through transparent elections, but Qais Saeed drove us out of Parliament with a tank, and since then we have raised the slogan “Down with the coup.”
It is true that the number of demonstrators was not large at that time, because what happened came as a great shock to us, as 150 headquarters of the Ennahda movement were burned, and our movement was busy, and we said, then, that we missed the victory by a knockout blow, as the Turks did with their coup, but we still have points to win.
We organized the first protest with other opponents such as “Citizens Against the Coup” on September 18, 2021, two months after the coup, and after that time more than 20 demonstrations were held all over the country, and Qais tried to confront us with counter-demonstrations but the people did not respond to him.
Thus, the Ennahda movement does not play on the people’s pain, but rather defends the principles of the revolution because the current conflict in Tunisia is between the revolution and the forces of the counter-revolution.
So, how do you explain the steadfastness of President Kais Saied against all these protests so far?
Isn't his popularity the source of his strength?
If we believe the opinion polls about the popularity of Qais Saeed on July 25, 2021, it was close to 90%, but over time his project was exposed and his share in decline and the evidence is that most parties became against him and announced their boycott of the elections and refused to participate in a false game, and even the parties that supported him around him rose up, and he was no longer popular;
Thus, it is based only on hard power, ie the security and the army.
Ghannouchi demanded Said not to rely on the Tunisian army because it is a national force to protect the people and not a tool for repression (Reuters)
Will the security and the army remain neutral if the situation deteriorates further?
Experience has taught us that the army and security are on the side of the people, so the day the people move, our assessment is that the national army will not shoot to protect Qais Saeed, and therefore he should not rely for long on hard power because it is a national force made to protect the people and not a tool in his hands for repression.
But the president's supporters may reply that you are free to roam freely, to hold meetings, and to organize protests.
Where is the repression?
We can respond to this through the military courts set up in Tunisia, in which parliamentarians, journalists, activists, and talent are tried, not to mention the overthrow of all elected state institutions, settling scores with judges, and so on.
You held a series of meetings with the leaders of the Ennahda movement.
What is the content of those meetings?
Are you about to mobilize to thwart the legislative elections scheduled for December 17 next?
Holding meetings is a regular thing in parties, and our party has 50 years of activity and has traditions in meetings to assess the reality and developments and foresee the future, and it needs to communicate, especially with the younger generation.
We also do not hide that we are mobilizing our bases for the success of the big demonstration on October 15th.
You say that your party is very old in the Tunisian arena and that you are looking forward to the future.
Why did the Ennahda movement not foresee the existence of a danger, since your bases were the ones who elected Kais Saied as president?
We did not commit a sin or national treason, but we made a political mistake, and we erred in appreciation for Qais Saeed, who we thought was good.
We did not elect him because he is close to us, or because he is the son of our party, or because we have greed for something from him.
But he gave a press interview during his presidential campaign, and the man seemed to have an anti-partisan view.
what do you think?
The man did not express that and did not talk much and raised general slogans such as the people want and slogans against normalization.
President Kais Saied considered that the parties that refuse to participate in the upcoming legislative elections are excluding themselves from political life.
Why do you refuse to participate?
What is the use of this boycott?
Parties and intermediary bodies do not exist within the political project of Qais Said, and the evidence for this is that the parties do not exist in the electoral law that he formulated, so the electoral law does not speak about parties but rather about individuals, and even the electoral commission installed by him considered that parties have no right to fund or support Individuals in their electoral campaign, and this perception excludes parties from elections, and therefore what is the role of parties and what is the justification for their existence if their goal is not to run for government according to political programs.
Thus, the project of Qais Saeed is to establish a base system similar to all the dictatorships that hovered around leaders that summarize all the facts in one person, such as Gaddafi and others.
But what is wrong with holding elections on individuals?
Is there no such voting system in advanced systems?
The individual system is in place in some countries of France, but it is the political parties who elect these individuals and support them in their electoral campaigns.
Then we have to realize what is the result of these elections?
Is not the election of Parliament?
If we examine the powers of this parliament in the constitution that Qais Saeed himself drafted, we will find it lacking powers.
The president can dissolve parliament whenever he wants, especially if he dares to withdraw confidence from his government, and he has the power to enact legislation during the parliamentary recess.
In short, the president in this gelatinous system that he dreams of and implements is not accountable to anyone while everyone is accountable to him.
Some cases regarding suspected money laundering or terrorist cases are still ongoing with you.
What is the point of all these investigations?
Will you weaken your weight in the political scene?
I expressed my denunciation before the investigative judges and stuck to my immunity as Speaker of Parliament, considering that they do not have the legal right to call and question me, but out of respect for the judicial institution - which I highly appreciate as representing a bulwark against the return of dictatorship - I went to investigate for long hours.
In fact, there are 5 cases raised against me, all of them related to money laundering, terrorism, and the deportation of fighters. The purpose of raising these cases is to transform the Ennahda movement’s file from a political file that is dealt with by political means such as elections into a security and terrorist file so that it can be easily removed from the political arena and written off under judicial and security pretexts.
How do you expect the fate of these cases?
It will be doomed to inevitable failure, God willing, just as it will be the inevitable failure of this coup.
Why did the experience of political Islam not succeed in ruling in many countries, including Egypt and Tunisia?
Why has the Ennahda movement declined since the 2011 elections?
In fact, there is no single political Islam.
If we accept political Islam in Tunisia, then we prefer participatory democratic Islam.
We have established participatory governance with two moderate secular parties since we won the first elections after the revolution in 2011.
The political Islamist current started in the seventies and resisted all attempts to eradicate it. After the revolution, it won the elections because it represents a need and a demand for this current.
But when we ruled, we were subjected to tens of thousands of sit-ins until the state became weak and the unions supported it.
But this does not negate that those who ruled from the Ennahdhas or others had the necessary competence to run the country, but the Ennahda movement was not the only party that ruled. black.
As for the decline of the Ennahda movement, it is relative, and it is considered the least harmful compared to the rest of the parties, such as Nidaa Tounes, which disintegrated.
Our voter turnout has fallen since 2011, a loss in and of itself, but it hasn't moved us from the top spot on the political scene.
You previously announced your willingness to give up the presidency of the Ennahda movement in exchange for reaching a "settlement".
What are the features of that settlement that you propose?
If Ghannouchi's remaining in his current position is what obstructs the solution and obstructs saving Tunisia from the danger that awaits it, then we welcome any deal.
In 2013, Tunisia experienced a severe political crisis. At that time, the idea of holding a national dialogue was proposed by the Labor Union, and we signed the road map.
That deal stipulated that Ennahda would cede power to form a technocratic government in exchange for restoring stability, continuing to write the constitution, and organizing new elections.
We accepted that compromise then and today we would be glad if we find another deal for Tunisia to restore its democracy.
The slogan of the Ennahda movement today is not a return to power, nor is the goal of the demonstrations that we are carrying out to overthrow the Qais Said regime to return to power, but our goal is to overthrow tyranny to return to democracy.
It is expected that the Ennahda movement will organize its next conference in June 2022. What is the reason for all this delay?
Will there be a change at the head of the movement in the next conference?
What delayed the conference was the repercussions of the Corona virus, and then what happened in Tunisia after the coup.
The movement’s next conference will evaluate the leadership’s work in the last stage since 2016 within the financial and literary report, after which it will draw up the party’s future policies, provided that the third stage of the conference will be the election of the leadership that will lead this policy.
With regard to the file of changing the leadership or changing the number one in the party at least, it is an issue because according to the existing law, the leader of the movement has completed his sessions, and therefore he is a candidate for change, and one of the brothers or sisters may replace him.
So there is no intention to revise the law to re-nominate you?
The Congress has the right to revise the party law, and the Congress is its own master, but I am determined to vacate the place for one of the brothers or sisters.
Why did the opposition remain divided and scattered?
Is it not possible to agree on a minimum among them in the face of the president?
It is true that the opposition is not united, but these marches organized by opposition parties, such as the Salvation Front or the Five Party Group, all carry the same slogans and goals against the coup.
When people unite their goals will unite their ranks.
The reason for this dispersion goes back to the remnants of the past years and what the scene knew of a state of splitting and severe polarization between the Ennahda movement and its opponents.
What made the meeting not easy, although part of the modernists united with us.
What balanced mistakes committed by the Renaissance movement?
Wasn't its delay in establishing the Constitutional Court a major reason for what happened in Tunisia?
Yes, it was wrong to delay in establishing a constitutional court, but Ennahda is not only responsible for it, given that there was a state of polarization between the parties and each party was trying to push their group to run for the constitutional court, and this was a mistake.
In fact, President Kais Saied was determined to obstruct the establishment of the Constitutional Court because that would have disrupted his coup project, and even if we had established the Constitutional Court, he would have dissolved it just as he had dissolved the Supreme Judicial Council or the elected parliament.
During your presidency of Parliament and in sessions with President Qais Saeed, was there friendship between you?
Didn't you feel that he was trying to pull the rug out from under you?
No, I didn't feel anything. The man had an extraordinary ability to deceive, and I even felt a kind of reassurance about him.
What is your message to President Qais Saeed?
We do not have a personal problem with Kais Saied, but we have a problem with his policy of unilateral rule, and this is what the Tunisian people reject.
Thus, we tell him that going down this path will harm him and the people. Therefore, we call on him to enter into a national dialogue instead of confrontation, and we want the path of dialogue.