Dialogue with Wang Xing, a professor and doctoral supervisor at the Zhou Enlai School of Government and Management of Nankai University: What are the pain points of "outsiders" looking at vocational education?
[Reported by China News reporter Liu Jun] "Defining vocational education as employment education is a dwarf of vocational education." "The application of artificial intelligence is becoming more and more extensive, and 'machine substitution' is irresistible, and skills are still necessary. "In the construction of a skilled society, it is not appropriate to focus on everyone's certification, and we need to be vigilant about diploma inflation." Recently, at the 10th High-level Dialogue on Vocational Education and Urban Development held in Binzhou, Shandong, Zhou Enlai, Nankai University, government management Wang Xing, a professor and doctoral supervisor of the college, threw a number of important topics one after another, which aroused the thinking of the participants.
After the meeting, Wang Xing, a self-proclaimed "outsider in the vocational education circle", accepted an exclusive interview with a reporter from China News, directly attacking the pain points of China's vocational education and skills society construction.
Wang Xing, a professor at the Zhou Enlai School of Government and Management of Nankai University.
(Photo courtesy of the respondent/Reported by China News)
China News: With the development of artificial intelligence, everyone believes that factory assembly line workers will be replaced by robots in the future.
In this context, is it necessary for workers to acquire skills?
Why does China still advocate the construction of a skill-based society?
Wang Xing: Technological progress will indeed lead to the replacement of some skills, but it does not mean that the demand for skills will disappear.
In fact, technological progress will have three effects on the labor market. In addition to the substitution effect, there are productivity effects and job creation effects.
So, on the contrary, the more advanced the technology is, the higher the skills are often required.
For example, China is the largest market for industrial robots, but the failure rate in use is higher than abroad.
The reason is that the automation industry itself has insufficient technical support.
We attach great importance to key neck-stuck technologies, but some technologies cannot solve many problems after they are introduced.
I think a key factor here is that the accuracy of our other components and production processes is not enough.
There is also a shortage of skilled personnel.
After new products are developed, there are requirements for the conditions of the process workshop.
It must be adjusted according to the characteristics of the industry, and the local climate and humidity must also be considered.
To accomplish this adjustment requires a large database accumulation, some parameters can be standardized, some cannot.
This job is highly skilled and cannot be done by robots.
From this perspective, automation will not necessarily bring about mass unemployment, but requires workers to have the skills required for intelligent manufacturing. The higher the degree of mechanization of the manufacturing industry and the more advanced equipment and equipment, the more supporting skills are required.
The relationship between skill level and technological progress is not an antagonistic relationship, but rather a relationship of mutual promotion.
"China News": Nowadays, every enterprise is talking about innovation, repeatedly mentioning the importance of laboratory research and development, but you "singed the opposite" in your speech at the meeting, emphasizing that the workshop labor of front-line workers is indispensable in technological progress. or lack thereof.
Why do you have such a judgment?
Wang Xing: In the eyes of many people, R&D positions are highly technical and irreplaceable, while the work of front-line workers is despised.
I don't agree with this notion.
In fact, "good" technical research is not based on imagination or inspiration, but is usually explored on the basis of sufficient familiarity with workshop production.
Research and development must be combined with workshop production in order to truly promote technological progress and innovation.
Also, all skilled workers start out as ordinary workers.
Without the experience of ordinary workers, it is impossible to grow into a skilled worker.
The problem now is that no one wants to be a regular worker.
Local governments have issued a large number of preferential policies for skilled talents, focusing only on those skilled talents, while ignoring social support for ordinary industrial workers to a certain extent.
This is not good for social development.
"China News": As the world's factory, China has a huge team of industrial workers.
However, in recent years, from the "labor shortage" to the "skilled labor shortage", the supply of skilled industrial workers in China is seriously lacking. What is the reason behind it?
Wang Xing: I believe that relatively stable and long-term job experience is a prerequisite for skill improvement.
For a long time, the job turnover rate of industrial workers with migrant workers as the main force is very high, with an average of 1.7 years to change a position.
This kind of short-term employment is obviously not conducive to the formation of skills of industrial workers.
The paradox of "learning technology in order not to do technology anymore" shows that the formation of skills of workers in China's manufacturing industry is not only an economic issue, but also a social issue.
China News: When it comes to vocational education, local governments and vocational schools now regard the employment rate as an important indicator.
Why do you say "defining vocational education as employment education is a dwarf of vocational education"?
Wang Xing: The student employment rate is an indicator for evaluating the quality of vocational schools, but it cannot be the only measure.
Cyclical data are more convincing.
For example, after five years, the turnover rate of students, the matching rate of majors and employment positions, the employment satisfaction of self-evaluation, and the satisfaction of employers should all be incorporated into the evaluation system of the student training platform.
Employment is only the first step. For students and parents, what is more important is the quality of employment, whether vocational school students can achieve good economic and social status after working.
This is the key to overturning the stereotype of "vocational education is education for poor students" and "vocational school students are second-class citizens".
In addition, people's understanding of vocational education cannot stop at employment education and livelihood education. It is actually the basis for the formation of a country's competitive advantage. The understanding should be raised to this level.
"China News": In the process of promoting the construction of a skilled society, some provinces have put forward the goal of "everyone holds a certificate".
You don't agree with this?
Wang Xing: We should be vigilant against the proliferation of diplomas and certificates in the process of building a skill society.
In recent years, there has been a phenomenon of academic inflation, and many ordinary job recruitments have raised the threshold to undergraduates and even masters from prestigious schools.
This is actually overdrafting our demographic dividend.
A lot of people continue to study in school when they should be working, which is a huge waste of human resources.
At present, academic inflation tends to spread to vocational education. It is inappropriate to take everyone holding a certificate as the focus of the construction of a skill-based society. A high degree does not mean high skills. Industry needs and practical application results should be the focus of consideration. .
We should also be alert to the implementation deviations in the vocational education million enrollment expansion plan.
Secondary vocational graduates are the main source of higher vocational admissions.
After the introduction of the enrollment expansion plan, we found in our survey that many secondary vocational schools have begun to position their teaching goals for further education, and the teaching content and teaching practice have also turned to the purpose of further education.
The original intention of expanding enrollment is to promote employment and improve skills, and the practice of secondary vocational schools obviously deviates from this original intention.
"China News": Vocational education reform is a systematic project, affecting the whole body.
In your opinion, if you want to change the status quo that vocational education is not recognized by the society, which link should you start from?
Wang Xing: I think the most important thing is equal access to public service resources.
Students with 985 and 211 university diplomas and students with vocational school diplomas should be equal in terms of social rights when looking for a job. For example, they should also enjoy urban talent subsidies.
But not yet.
This is a public resource that guides the outside world to dwarf vocational education, which artificially intensifies the distinction between diplomas.
This has to change.
In the process of researching vocational education, I revisited some ideas of Mr. Huang Yanpei, the founder of China Vocational Education Association. The "big vocational education doctrine" proposed by him seems to be outdated and very sharp.
"Doing kung fu only from vocational schools cannot develop vocational education; only doing kung fu from the agricultural and industrial circles cannot develop vocational education." To develop vocational education, we must cultivate both inside and outside.
[Roundtable Discussion] How to build a public training base?
In recent years, many public training bases have been built in China. While cultivating a large number of skilled talents, there are also problems such as idleness.
Experts and officials who participated in the 10th Vocational Education and Urban Development High-level Dialogue expressed their opinions and gave advice on the construction and use of public training bases.
Li Zhong, a third-level researcher at the Bureau of Industry and Information Technology of Binzhou City, suggested that we should find out the resources of enterprises and colleges, make in-depth connections, and match them accurately.
Taking Binzhou as an example, the public training bases in Binzhou should be linked by the top ten local industries.
Li Rongshun, director of Binzhou Municipal Human Resources and Social Security Bureau, said that once the public training base is entrusted to vocational colleges or included in the local budget, it will become a "one-man show" for the school or the government.
We must give full play to the main role of the market and mobilize the enthusiasm of enterprises.
Sun Shanxue, executive director of the China Vocational Education Association and a professor at Beijing Foreign Studies University, reminded that public training bases should not only serve large enterprises, but also serve small, medium and micro enterprises, ordinary people and even primary and middle school students.
From the actual situation of local economic development, what is suitable is the best.
(Finish)