In the past it would have been heresy to even debate such a question on the podium of a Catholic day, especially right at the beginning and with the chairman of the German Bishops' Conference.

"Who needs the church anymore?" But those days are over.

For an answer, the organizers of the 102nd Catholic Day in Stuttgart on Thursday also invited a guest from Berlin to the foyer of the state parliament who does not have a reputation for having much to do with the church: Kevin Kühnert, Secretary General of the SPD and avowed atheist.

As expected, Kühnert, who as Juso chairman called for the ban on dancing to be abolished on Good Friday, does not question the right of the churches to exist.

He also dutifully assures that the federal government does not want to “isolate” itself from the churches and that there are issues

Thomas Jansen

Editor in Politics.

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But Kühnert leaves no doubt that the Catholic bishops will have to be prepared for something if fundamental changes do not soon take place in the church, especially when it comes to dealing with sexual abuse and church labor law: "It was desired that the state stays outside.

With the justification 'We'll take care of it ourselves'.

We shouldn't have allowed that," says Kühnert, referring to the sluggish processing of sexual abuse.

That is why the federal government has strengthened the office of abuse officer.

Kühnert calls legislative steps "necessary"

What he then adds sounds like a threat to the bishops' conference.

We reserve the right to take legislative steps if necessary.

"And my personal opinion is that it will be necessary," says the SPD general secretary and member of the Bundestag.

What he means by that remains unclear.

Kühnert does not take up the keyword "truth commission", which moderator Dunja Hayali mentions.

However, he makes it clear that associations and parties also have a duty to deal with sexual abuse.

Georg Bätzing, the chairman of the German Bishops' Conference, who sits on the podium with Kühnert, must above all defend himself.

A report in the “Christ und Welt” supplement of the weekly newspaper “Die Zeit” published on Tuesday that Bätzing had promoted a priest accused of sexually molesting two women to district dean in his diocese of Limburg, although he knew about it.

Bätzing defended himself on Thursday by saying that the incidents were 15 and 20 years ago, that the priest regretted his actions and that it was not a question of criminal abuse of children or young people.

He couldn't do more than a warning.

When asked by the moderator why he had not gone public with it himself, Bätzing referred to his duty of confidentiality.

When asked whether he could at least have refrained from promoting this priest, Bätzing replies that the pastor was elected district dean by a large majority.

He didn't want to turn down an appointment.

"Isn't there the possibility of rehabilitation and taking on responsibility?" Bätzing received sharp opposition from Johanna Beck, who herself is a victim of sexual violence in the church and is a member of the Advisory Board of the Bishops' Conference.

Just because someone repents doesn't mean "everything will be fine and it won't be done again".

Beck also accuses Bätzing of wrongly restricting abuse to minors only.