- Artur Borisovich, you were in Navalny's team, worked for several years as a lawyer at the Kemerovo headquarters. Now, as I understand it, you are no longer with them?
- Long ago.
A year and a half not with them.
But I would not call myself their supporter.
I worked purely on the legal side.
- But you were officially settled?
- I got a job in a fund **.
I never took part in actions, but explained how not to break the law.
If any action was being prepared, he explained how to submit a notification to it, how to hold pickets.
Driving minors away from this case.
- That is, you were in favor of the agreed part of such events?
- This is my job, my task.
And no one was detained in my presence, by the way.
- You are a person of age, experienced, educated. These are not often found in regional headquarters. How did you get to Navalny?
- In fact, at first I was even a little in opposition with them.
There were various reasons.
It does not matter.
I even with Ksenia Pakhomova ...
- Coordinator of the Kemerovo headquarters.
- Yes, one of them.
We had a conflict with her.
On January 28, 2018, 25 people were detained in the Soviet Square.
And there was a lawyer, but he just couldn't handle it.
And she, in spite of our conflict, called me and said: "Can you help there?"
I came to the court, and we with that previous lawyer divided everyone in half and until 11 at night all these courts were held.
- Did you get paid for this?
- For this one-time job - yes.
- Who paid you? Was it Navalny's headquarters or some kind of intermediary structure?
- Oh, I honestly don't even remember.
I remember that 10 thousand. Who gave?
Well, probably Xenia.
- How? Did you have an agreement with them or was it just thrown at you from some card of an individual?
- No, I have no cards, it was cash.
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- They always say: do not lie, do not steal, everything should be strictly taken into account. And then, it turns out, cash.
- Well, the statute of limitations has passed.
- Then you, as I understand it, ended up in Navalny's headquarters ...
- Zhdanov came to me - he talked to me via Facebook.
We just talked.
And he offered me a permanent.
- That is, he interviewed you remotely?
- Yes.
- How do you like Zhdanov? There are many claims to him that, they say, he is more of a populist lawyer than a real specialist. Could you somehow assess his competence?
- I would not like to evaluate it separately.
But, to be honest, I strongly doubt all of them as lawyers.
I don't remember a single trial they won.
Once Sobol won some 100 thousand there, and they talked everywhere for two weeks.
Here in Kemerovo I win a lot of ships, and very heavy ones, from the Department of Internal Affairs ... How many of these Navalnovites have been dragged out of prisons!
I counted here - 15 times, starting with Kalinichenko (Stanislav, coordinator of Navalny's Kemerovo headquarters. -
RT
).
That is, they are discharged there, say, 14 days, I go - I reduce it by five, for example.
The real thing, there is nothing wrong with that.
So that just a completely judicial lawlessness - well, this is nothing.
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- By the way, there is a very interesting story about Kalinichenko. As I understand it, this is one of the former leaders of the local headquarters.
- Last.
- You wrote a lot about him that this person avoided alimony, you helped him, that the person got into politics, created a halo of such a fighter and a person persecuted by the system, thanks to some of his own administrative offenses - he almost drank alcoholic beverages where something at the monument.
- This is a fact, which is fixed by a court decision, one cannot argue with this.
Here, a local journalist wrote that, they say, why are you writing this, Artur Borisovich: we can't find out now what he was drinking there.
How can we not?
I open the court decision - it says: "Cabernet, 0.7, 11 degrees."
We can remember everything.
- Then he took advantage of the fact that he had an administrative drive, called himself an oppositionist and became the head of Navalny's headquarters.
- No, it was very revealing there.
He was there with a friend, drinking wine.
The police arrived, they issued a protocol for drinking.
The second comrade (I don't even know him) took the protocol, went home, and this one became indignant.
They took him to the police department, where he fell somewhere - and here it began: everything - beat, beat, so to speak, pressed.
And that's all - he went there as a drinker, and left as a politician.
And then the detention center, all the media, of course ...
- That is, they made a hero out of him.
- Well, basically ...
- Do you think normal people turned their backs on Navalny at some point - what happened?
- They began to engage in eyewash.
We had such a deputy of our Kuzbass parliament - Valentina Ivanovna Shmakova, she is disabled.
And she was caught stealing money.
There is Navalny's headquarters in general ... Suddenly I read: "Navalny's headquarters has achieved a criminal case against United Russia Shmakova."
I just wanted to go and say: "Are you quite already?"
- Tell us about a high-profile case. Man is a dealer. In our opinion, practically a huckster. He worked at Navalny's headquarters and sold drugs. The story is absolutely wild.
- If I had the sense to shoot this scene at least once, it would be wilder.
I come several times ... You see, I lived not far from the headquarters.
And they ... I didn't know why they couldn't wake up by 11 in any way.
- That is, you come early in the morning to the headquarters or to its opening, and people are sleeping there?
- At 11. And there people sleep.
11 o'clock, bright sun - why don't they wake up?
And then, when this story surfaced, I thought that, most likely, because of this.
- By the way, did you know this drug dealer personally? What kind of person? How did he get to headquarters? I just want to understand how such people worked, how Leonid Volkov looked at it. Did they even know who they hired?
- Well, it turned out later.
Although I talked to his mother.
And I read the decision, the verdict.
They followed him for almost a year and a half, and on this occasion.
They did not just follow it, but right now, as it were, they tracked its traffic.
On the other hand, I almost never crossed paths with him.
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- There was another story: your office equipment was seized (as I understand it, law enforcement agencies) for a decent amount. Tell us about it and what happened next.
- You asked about Zhdanov.
I will now return to this - to the search.
Recently there was a video, and there Zhdanov, with a blue eye, says that they always knew about the alleged searches.
And when I heard this, I thought: "Why didn't I know about the alleged search?"
I would take the most expensive equipment somewhere.
I would have left my old computer and taken it away.
And he, it turns out, knew - or is lying that he knew.
Well, the Investigative Committee comes, they took away 90 thousand equipment.
- Yours. Was this your personal equipment?
- Computer, laptop, there are telephones.
For some reason, the recorder was taken away too.
In general, 90 thousand.
- Volkov has always stated publicly that he compensates his employees for such losses. Did they compensate you for something?
- No.
He argued for everyone.
And they told me that they would give the money back.
- That is, you were promised.
- When we parted, even Kalinichenko wrote to me, they say, Artur Borisovich, we will give everything to you first.
And then suddenly I find out - they gave everything to the former employees.
I write to Kadetova: "What about me?"
She says: "Well, you have a large amount, do you want a part?"
I say, “Why do I need a part?
Give it to me right away.
I'll be with you to keep the bookkeeping there. "
- "Oh, you are some kind of *****."
- Did you get the answer?
- So I wrote.
- They publicly collected money for this. Where did this money go then? Whose pocket are they in? Have you contacted Volkov? They asked him where the money was?
- I wrote to him.
When I learned that they had given them to everyone, I wrote: "Why are they not returning them to me?"
Silence.
Then I wrote to him without any "respected": "Leonid, if you ignore my questions, then I will decide for myself how I will continue to be.
Maybe I will be a witness in some case, and maybe even a victim. "
And in response, three letters flew in - right there, in a minute.
- He sent you?
- Yes: "I went there, clown."
Everything.
- And nobody paid the money?
- What money?
Everything, he kind of closed this question.
Well, okay, I warned him, so don't be offended later.
- About fines, Artur Borisovich. Remember, back in 2017 (in my opinion, in March) Navalny promised everyone who would come out (in Moscow, it was true, it was) to an uncoordinated event for € 10-12 thousand, something like that.
- ECHR.
- Yes. Do you know the people who received this money? Because 2021 is already in the yard - almost four years have passed since 2017.
- I don't know such people.
And I think that, most likely, this will not happen.
Because the ECHR is also a court after all, and not some kind of public organization.
They also look there, whether the event was legal or not.
To be honest, I laughed when, in one of the cases that I was doing this year, I saw a notice from Zhdanov and Volkov, which came to the administration on April 19, for a rally on April 21.
You asked how I assess them as lawyers.
- That is, in two days.
- Yes.
Doesn't Zhdanov know that, firstly, these notifications are submitted personally, and secondly, there is a time limit?
Well, further according to the law.
- Why do you think they are doing this? Window dressing? Report what you sent?
- Well, of course.
Served - that's all.
- Were you at Navalny's headquarters because of money?
- Well, I had to study.
- How much did you get paid?
- 25 thousand. Although I know that in other places for 40 thousand. But I’m 25 thousand, because there is no diploma.
With Zhdanov, there was such a conversation.
- You did not have a law degree, nevertheless you were hired to work as a lawyer.
- Yes.
- Will you still support Navalny's protests? Mass events on the streets? I know that they are now preparing a number of events already in the post-election period.
- I never go to rallies at all.
And to defend in court is my duty.
If I protect the bully, it does not mean that I myself am the bully.
No, I can protect anyone.
The Yabloko people keep calling me.
Where someone was detained - they immediately call me.
- Wait, let's dream up. For example, we are sitting here ... Suddenly, unexpectedly, Leonid Volkov is walking along the boulevard. You met eyes. What do you tell him? After the whole story of not paying you compensation for equipment and so on? Well, like a man.
- Well, for what he wrote to me, in fact, you have to hit on the head.
- You have the opportunity to address young navalnists already from the height of your experience at Navalny's headquarters. What advice would you give them?
- I think there is one piece of advice: think more with your head and compare everything that they say.
I've recently been listening to everyone: Solovyov, Kiselyov, Sobol, Zhdanov - and I compare who says what.
By the way, oddly enough, very often they all act a little in the same format.
For example, Solovyov invites all his friends, and Volkov invites all his friends.
- Artur Borisovich, thank you very much for this frank interview. We hope that everything will be good in your city and without navalnists, that you will solve your problems without some foreign populism.
- And they are not.
They have been gone for a long time.
Where are they, who are they?
Do not know.
I am summoned to the Investigative Committee.
I'm the main bully here.
I have already visited the Investigative Committee twice.
Okay, let them call you.
* The public movement "Navalny's Headquarters" is an organization recognized as extremist, its activities are prohibited on the territory of Russia by the decision of the Moscow City Court of 06/09/2021.
** The Anti-Corruption Foundation is included in the register of NPOs performing the functions of a foreign agent by the decision of the Ministry of Justice of the Russian Federation dated 09.10.2019. The organization is recognized as extremist, its activities are prohibited on the territory of Russia by the decision of the Moscow City Court of 06/09/2021.