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WORLD:
Mr. Kubicki, the Chancellor is willing to relax the lockdown and is presenting a step-by-step plan.
Is that the right step?
Wolfgang Kubicki:
Yes, but unfortunately he's too late.
The Infection Protection Act clearly stipulates that once certain incidence levels have been reached, the restrictions on basic rights must be withdrawn.
Several federal states have already submitted corresponding step-by-step plans that are not based exclusively on the incidence values, but also, for example, on the occupancy of intensive care beds and the occupancy of the hospitals.
It was overdue for the Chancellor to follow suit.
To be clear: The further procedure does not depend on the will of the Chancellor and the country leaders, but on what the Infection Protection Act in particular provides.
Wolfgang Kubicki - Vice President of the German Bundestag - here taken in his office in the Jakob-Kaiser-Haus
Source: Martin UK Lengemann / WELT
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WORLD:
Now the incidence values are no longer falling in many places, on the contrary.
In view of this, can we even afford to relax?
Kubicki:
It's not about relaxation, the very word is wrong.
The point is that existing restrictions on fundamental rights must be lifted when certain incidence levels have been reached.
And we have in many cases.
In Schleswig-Holstein there are several districts with incidence values below 20. It is no longer possible to explain to people why everything still has to remain closed.
WORLD:
Doesn't regional easing raise the risk that the virus will be carried on?
After all, people are mobile even in Corona times.
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Kubicki:
That is theoretically conceivable, but I do not consider it problematic in reality.
People from Hof don't go to Schleswig to eat.
The Federal Constitutional Court already determined in April that there must be regional differences if the infection rate is different.
WORLD:
If people are as disciplined as you say, why are the numbers of infections not falling anymore?
Kubicki:
The Robert Koch Institute cannot give you an answer to that, and neither can I.
We don't know where the majority of people are infected.
After more than a year of a pandemic, this is really an untenable state of law because this ignorance is linked to specific restrictions on fundamental rights.
For this reason alone, we have to be clear: we have to learn to live with the virus in order to avoid overloading the health system.
A "Zero Covid" strategy is nonsense and would not be humane.
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WORLD:
What should an effective step-by-step plan look like in your opinion?
Kubicki:
I think we have provided a good template with the plan of the coalition of CDU, FDP and Greens in Schleswig-Holstein.
With incidence values between 50 and 100, daycare centers are likely to reopen and elementary schools to switch classes.
If the values are below 50, the alternating lessons can be canceled up to the 6th grade, under 35 shops, restaurants and cultural institutions may reopen with restrictions.
From March 1st, we will also allow body-hugging services in Schleswig-Holstein.
WORLD:
Why do you lump business owners or operators of cultural institutions together?
Why can't someone who has a really good hygiene concept open sooner than someone who doesn't do anything?
Kubicki:
You need an effective hygiene concept in order to be allowed to open at all.
What is now needed is a step-by-step plan of who can open when.
Even Bavaria's Prime Minister Markus Söder (CSU) has understood that.
He now finally wants to make such a plan.
Now it will be exciting to see whether the federal states can agree on uniform national regulations.
WORLD:
Vaccinations are likely to ease the situation further.
Should those who have been vaccinated be allowed to participate in public life to a greater extent than those who are not?
Kubicki:
First of all, I'm very angry that it's the end of February and that there is still vaccination chaos.
And that's because of the inability to order enough vaccine and develop a viable vaccination schedule.
As far as vaccinated people are concerned, restrictions are no longer allowed wherever people no longer pose a threat to the health of others.
This is not a question of privileges, the Basic Law prescribes it.
But I hope we don't need to have an extended debate about this, in a few weeks the vaccination numbers will have risen sharply and the incidence values will hopefully have fallen further.
Then the question of so-called privileges no longer arises.
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WORLD:
But you are optimistic.
And the question arises as to whether it is appropriate to exclude vaccinated people from all restrictions, but not unvaccinated people.
Many of them can't help but not have been vaccinated.
After all, there is a sequence of vaccinations.
Kubicki: The
fact that almost all state and constitutional lawyers agree that such a vaccination sequence should be decided by law and not determined by ordinance by Federal Health Minister Jens Spahn (CDU) is one thing.
The other is that, in the case you describe, unvaccinated people can also be expected to show solidarity with those who have been vaccinated.
There are reasons why some people come in line before others.
The fact that most of them have to wait longer for their vaccination due to the miserable failure of the federal government is extremely annoying, but does not change the legal situation.
But as I said: we probably don't have to lead the discussion.
Not because those who have been vaccinated and those who have recovered would have to prove their status, for example by means of a digital vaccination pass.
And that won't work anytime soon when you look at how big the vaccination chaos is overall.
WORLD:
So that vaccinated people can be freed from restrictions more quickly, it should be clear that they no longer infect anyone.
But we don't know.
How do we deal with that?
Kubicki:
It's true, we don't currently know.
But there is hope.
According to a new study from Israel, up to 90 percent of those vaccinated are no longer contagious.
We have to wait and see what the final result of these and other studies will be.