Hemeroteca Read all the interviews on the back cover
Granada, 1989, historian.
Together with
Manuel Ángel Cuenca
and with illustrations by
Gloria Cuenca, he
has just published
Curiosidades de la Historia de España
(Edaf), a book in which many myths are dismantled.
Is there a lot of ignorance about the history of Spain? I would say yes, that we still continue with a history that is very mixed with myths and legends that are not based on reality. Lack of interest in knowing our own past. Is history an ideological, partisan and self-serving use? The story lends itself a lot to this type of manipulation by different groups, by characters who seek to take the story to their own ground. And that is one of the reasons why it is difficult for people to be interested in the history of Spain, because it is always seen with a political purpose that it should not have. What we are looking for is that the history of Spain is a history of everyone and for everyone, without being carried away by trends or by other types of interests that have nothing to do with knowledge of our past. Let's go with some historical issues on which it has been ideologized: the famous Catalan-Aragonese crown, did it exist or did it not exist? It did not exist. Documentary sources, both in medieval and modern times, always speak of the Crown of Aragon, made up of the Kingdom of Aragon, the Kingdom of Valencia, the Kingdom of Mallorca and the Catalan counties. But there is never talk in itself of a Catalan-Aragonese crown, because everyone recognized the primacy of the King of Aragon, who is the one who gave the Crown its name. One of the most controversial issues that may result from your book is that they maintain that there was no genocide in America ... It is true that it is a controversial issue, because there was a military conquest. We cannot say that the Spanish entered there in peace. But, on the one hand, that is something that absolutely all the peoples have gone through, many of the peoples that throughout history have visited the Peninsula did not enter peace. When we say that there was no genocide in America, what we mean is that there was no plan, no interest, or no intention on the part of the Spanish to exterminate the indigenous population. But there were many, many deaths among the indigenous people ... Without a doubt there were deaths from the fighting and the abuses that took place. But when two population groups that had been separated for millennia came into contact, the Spanish brought to America a whole spiral of diseases such as measles, smallpox and the flu against which Europeans were already immunized and indigenous peoples were not. There was a lot of mortality, but it was mainly from illness. Just in this same year that has just ended, we have known well what is the impact that a disease can have on the population. And the Spaniards also had to face diseases that were endemic in America and against which they did not have any type of defenses of their own. They also affirm that 80% of the gold and silver that was taken out of America stayed in America ... It is true that a good quantity of gold, silver and precious metals was brought to the Peninsula. But from the study of the shipments that arrived from America, and on which there was a very rigorous control, it is observed that what mainly arrived in Spain from America were other products, more than gold and silver. It is true that gold and silver arrived in Spain in great quantity and to a great extent they were used to pay for all the wars that the Habsburgs, both major and minor, were carrying out in Europe. But the great majority of the gold and silver stayed in America, in order to be able to sustain all the infrastructure that the Spanish empire was developing in that part of the world - the construction of cities, roads, defenses to avoid attacks by rivals. ..- and in payment of those products that arrived from the Peninsula. In addition, it has also been shown that the extraction of gold and silver was not as large as is often thought. And that gold that did ship from America to Spain, they claim that, contrary to popular belief, it was hardly affected during the journey by pirate attacks ... That's right. Spain, during the 16th, 17th and also in the 18th centuries, had a Navy that, although not very numerous, was powerful enough to be able to repel both the attack of pirates and corsairs from other powers. The image of pirates boarding ships has come to us from the cinema and literature. But it was a phenomenon that did not affect the Spanish ships or the galleons that came from America much. Piracy further affected the local population, who had no means or defense to prevent these attacks. But the Spanish fleet hardly suffered from piracy. Speaking of the Spanish Armada ... I studied that the Invincible Armada had been defeated by the English, and now you come and say that it was not. Can you explain it to me? The Spanish Armada did suffer a defeat, which we know as the defeat of the Invincible Armada. But despite the fact that much importance has been given to that defeat and its great symbolic value for England, it took place in the context of an entire war between Spain and England that lasted several decades and in which Spain finally prevailed. Much publicity has been given to that Navy that Spain sent to attack and conquer England. But it is not so much known that the response that the English gave, their counter-navy to attack the Iberian Peninsula, also suffered a disaster. We have assumed the defeat of the Spanish Armada and we have not been able to recognize that Spain was able to overcome it, change the course of the war against England and win it. They also say in "Curiosities of the History of Spain" that the Inquisition used torture much less than is believed ... Not only do we say it, but the historians who in recent decades have dedicated themselves to studying that institution. Furthermore, we can affirm this because one of the characteristics of the Inquisition is that it was a very bureaucratic court, and despite the fact that files have been lost, we keep a large number of lawsuits and trials that allow us to know how much torture was used. It is true that torture was used, in fact it was a procedure that was used not only in inquisitorial justice but also in civil justice, both in Spain and in the rest of Europe. But what has been shown is that torture was used by the Inquisition to a much lower degree than has always been thought, the use of torture instruments was much less, because in addition the inquisitors themselves recognized that confessions that were obtained in this way were not always valid. In Spain the case of the witches of Zugarramurdi is famous. But in their book they claim that the wave of anti-witchcraft persecution that swept through Europe in the Modern Age in Spain was hardly felt ... Yes. It was a current that spread mainly through Europe and also reached Spain, especially to the north of the Peninsula. But when the first trial took place, in which one of the inquisitors was Alonso de Salazar, he made an exhaustive and rigorous study after which he managed to impose that there was no need to give any credibility to the accusations of witchcraft, he considered that it was of fables and inventions that had no validity. Although the inquisitors were anachronistic, they always had a very rational side, and they used to be very critical of any type of phenomenon, let's say supernatural, including witchcraft. That prevented Spain from joining the anti-witchcraft wave that occurred in France, Germany and other Central European countries. Where does this belief come from, according to you false, that Isabel la Católica was a queen with a more than debatable hygiene that did not change her clothes? There are other historical figures to whom this has been attributed, such as Isabel la Católica's own mother, Isabel de Portugal, who is known to have suffered from mental problems and had hygiene problems. And lack of hygiene has also been blamed on one of the descendants of Isabel la Católica, specifically Isabel Clara Eugenia, one of the most important women within the Austrias. I believe that Isabel la Católica was possibly blamed for some kind of rivalry. But we know that Queen Elizabeth was a clean woman who took care of both her own cleanliness and that of the whole family. Are there also false myths about Al-Andalus? The Andalusian world had a great influence during medieval times on the Peninsula. And yes, there are myths and distorted images about Al-Andalus and its relationship with the Christian kingdoms. We imagine, for example, the Andalusians of that time with Arab features, but in reality they would be practically identical to how we are now. And the relationship between Al-Andalus and the Christian kingdoms was not only one of war: we find both moments of war, moments of peace, moments in which cultural exchanges take place between both worlds ... It was a much richer and more varied history of what many think. Didn't the Reconquest then consist of eight centuries of continuous struggles? No. There were times of war and times of peace. They also claim that Spain was neither the first nor the only country to expel the Jews ... Yes. It was a phenomenon that occurred throughout Europe during the Middle Ages and to which the Catholic Monarchs joined. France, England, Hungary or Austria expelled the Jews before Spain. And later there were also other kingdoms that did. Where do all these hoaxes come from then? Many times these hoaxes are born from data that is taken out of context, and many times behind them there are different interests. Many hoaxes emerged in that sense against Spain, taking them out of context and constantly repeating them to give them a certain air of rigor. The problem is that we have ended up believing those hoaxes and that negative and backward image of Spain, instead of looking for whether those myths and legends that have been telling us about our history are real or not.
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