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WORLD:
Mr. Haseloff, you described the government crisis in Saxony-Anhalt as "the most challenging days" of your political life so far.
Was that the polite description of a state of despair?
Reiner Haseloff:
No.
I wasn't desperate, even if I read it here and there.
I never gave up hope that we would find a way out.
But the situation was serious, because the joint government was effectively at an end.
WORLD:
What were your priorities during this time?
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Haseloff:
I wanted to secure the governability of the country in a difficult pandemic situation.
And I wanted to keep my course of the political center.
WELT:
In your Kenya coalition with the SPD and the Greens, there have often been arguments.
Why has the dispute over the increase in the radio license fee escalated?
The subject had been on the table for months.
Haseloff:
I have never experienced a comparable situation in my political life.
The positions of the governing parties on the radio license fee could not be reconciled.
The coalition was on the brink in the middle of the pandemic.
We got no further with normal crisis management.
In this situation, I had to make tough decisions in order to ensure the ability to act and prevent a crash.
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In the end, we managed to find a compromise that all partners could live with.
We have prevented the coalition from breaking up and thus put the good of the country above the dispute on the matter.
Saxony-Anhalt blocks increase in the broadcasting fee
The state parliament in Magdeburg will not deal with the disputed state treaty in the black-red-green coalition until the end of the year.
The planned increase in the license fee by 86 cents has thus been overturned.
Source: WELT / Dirk Schommertz
WORLD: In the
midst of this turbulence, you fired your Interior Minister Holger Stahlknecht.
He has also resigned as head of the CDU.
You worked with the man for 15 years.
How difficult was this decision for you?
Haseloff:
That was one of the most difficult decisions I've ever made.
Of course, this also has a personal dimension.
But I had to make this decision, because one thing was necessary for the coalition to continue to exist: unconditional trust in every minister and a clear commitment to this joint government with its own shaping majority.
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WORLD:
Stahlknecht brought a CDU minority government into play in an interview - which would then have been dependent on the support of the AfD in parliament.
Didn't he express what at least part of the CDU parliamentary group in the state parliament secretly wanted?
Haseloff:
We formed the Kenya coalition in the spring of 2016 in a difficult situation.
The AfD had moved into the state parliament with almost 25 percent, and there were five parliamentary groups.
In this situation I formed a coalition of the democratic center with the SPD and the Greens.
I follow this course to this day and I will continue to follow it.
Also as the top candidate of the CDU in the upcoming state election campaign, when my party finally nominates me.
Any kind of cooperation with the AfD cannot be done with me.
This party is becoming more and more right-wing extremists, especially in Saxony-Anhalt.
It shows this in the content and in the use of language;
now she is playing down the pandemic.
It is irresponsible.
No state can be made with them.
I will stay with that.
WORLD:
Did the Berlin CDU leadership intervene in this crisis?
Haseloff:
The decisions about Saxony-Anhalt were made in Magdeburg.
I don't ask in Berlin before I decide to take a step.
However, I received a lot of encouragement from Berlin after we mastered the crisis.
WORLD:
Also from the Chancellor?
Haseloff:
Also from the Chancellor, yes.
But prime ministers have also contacted us.
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WORLD:
The ruling parties fought hard.
Can one then restore trust between the coalition partners?
Haseloff:
The mutual trust has been strengthened in these weeks, strange as it may sound.
If you struggle for a solution for weeks and at the end also find a workable way, that strengthens mutual recognition.
WORLD:
The core of the dispute was the increase in the broadcast fee.
This will not happen for the time being because the state parliament of Saxony-Anhalt has not approved the state treaty.
It was also not rejected because you withdrew a corresponding bill.
Did you have angry directors on the phone afterwards?
Haseloff:
They also called me beforehand.
The conflict did not come out of the blue, but has years of lead that can be read in the resolutions of the prime ministers and the minutes of the state parliament.
At the Prime Minister's Conference in June, I pointed out that the state parliament of Saxony-Anhalt is not expected to give majority approval to the State Media Treaty.
I even had it recorded in writing in a protocol note.
And, of course, I would have liked the public broadcasters to respond to the criticism that has been expressed here in Magdeburg about the costs and structures of the broadcasters and continues to be expressed.
"You can't prescribe freely elected MPs how they have to vote and then justify that purely procedurally."
Source: Amin Akhtar
WORLD:
The ARD chairman Tom Buhrow traveled to Magdeburg again in November for a parliamentary evening to discuss with the members of the state parliament.
But that has not changed the negative attitude of the CDU parliamentary group in particular.
Why?
Haseloff:
The ARD chairman explained to the MPs that they basically only had a notarial function in this procedure.
So would have to agree to the contract.
He later said that they were “defectors of responsibility”.
That wasn't very convincing.
You cannot prescribe freely elected MPs how they have to vote and then justify that purely procedurally.
More has to come then.
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The commission to determine the financial needs of broadcasters (KEF) has done more than just recommend an increase in fees.
She has also called for reforms in public law and expenditure discipline, yes, an external evaluation.
This part of the KEF report is always often suppressed.
WELT:
You are addressing what is probably the crucial point: There is an imbalance in the entire state treaty procedure.
A decision is submitted to a freely elected parliament, which it is basically only supposed to notarise through.
Your colleague Bodo Ramelow (left), the Prime Minister of Thuringia, has now suggested that you think again about whether this should not be done and that parliaments should be left out.
How do you see it
Haseloff:
The further decisions are now in Karlsruhe.
I have great respect before the Federal Constitutional Court, which is now dealing with this matter.
In this respect, there is also an opportunity in this crisis.
It cannot be ruled out that in a few years time we will face the same problem in other parliaments.
In Saxony, for example, it was extremely tight in 2010.
Incidentally, the state treaty amending media law was not the only state treaty that encountered resistance during the proceedings.
Schleswig-Holstein has also taken a separate route with the State Treaty on Gambling, while North Rhine-Westphalia has taken the protection of minors in the media.
The excitement about it was not half as great as ours.
WORLD:
The public broadcasters are now talking about a shortfall of 1.5 billion euros.
Do you fear that the state of Saxony-Anhalt will have to pay for the failures?
Haseloff:
No.
We have of course carefully checked this from a legal perspective.
The state treaty was not rejected in parliament.
It does not come about because the state parliament has not voted on it for the benefit of the state in the absence of a majority.
It is now up to the Federal Constitutional Court to clarify the situation.
And of course a saying from Karlsruhe would also be binding for Saxony-Anhalt.
"It's good that the debate is finally picking up speed"
Source: Amin Akhtar
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WORLD:
You have received criticism from many Prime Ministers.
Michael Kretschmer (CDU) from Saxony called the refusal of the CDU parliamentary group “impossible”;
Markus Söder (CSU) from Bavaria said annoyed that you couldn't negotiate forever.
On the other hand, you joined Bodo Ramelow, a leftist.
Did that surprise you?
Haseloff:
Armin Laschet also supported me.
And Bodo Ramelow simply told the truth that others did not emphasize: I declared in June that there is no majority in the state parliament.
My warning was ignored by many.
WORLD:
Now some Christian Democrats are even bringing a privatization of the public broadcasters into play.
What do you make of it?
Haseloff:
Nothing at all.
I do not want to abolish or privatize public service broadcasting.
I want to reform it.
It is good that the debate is finally picking up speed.
And I hope that after 30 years ARD and ZDF will finally arrive in the unified Germany.
WORLD:
What do you mean?
Haseloff:
ARD and ZDF have stayed in many branches of western television.
40 years ago, as a citizen of the GDR, I almost exclusively watched western television.
We had aligned the antennas on the roof of our house near Wittenberg so that we could receive programs such as “Kennzeichen D” or “Contrasts”.
The pictures of the Monday demonstrations in Leipzig from autumn '89 were smuggled out by civil rights activists and then broadcast, which was extremely important at the time.
ARD and ZDF spurred the success of the Peaceful Revolution.
The “Tagesschau” was the truth for many.
The "current camera" was lied and deceived.
WORLD:
And today?
Haseloff:
There have been a few steps towards the East recently, but you can tell in many reports that the authors are strangling with the East.
Sometimes it reminds of reports from abroad, what is being done there.
And of course people notice that.
This is also one of the reasons why the public broadcasters in the east have a harder time.
We have to talk about that.
The history of public service broadcasting
When the public service broadcaster was founded, the model was the BBC.
ARD and ZDF have the imperative of state distance and independence.
They are financed through the radio license fee, which repeatedly causes displeasure.
Source: WELT / Christoph Hipp
WORLD:
What do you watch on TV?
Haseloff:
I don't really have time for that.
But there is one program on ZDF that I rarely miss: “Terra X”, on Sundays at 7.30pm, popular science documentaries are on.
Then the whole family crouches in front of the cigarette box.
My grandchildren also watch it, although they hardly watch TV anymore, like many of their generation.
WORLD:
Christmas is just around the corner.
How do you celebrate in these times?
Haseloff:
Alone with my wife at home in Wittenberg.
My 91-year-old mother won't be there for the first time, and neither will my children and grandchildren.
But we use the technical possibilities and will connect digitally to deliver presents.
So the silent night is not a silent night.
WELT reporter Claus Christian Malzahn (front) in conversation with Haseloff
Source: Amin Akhtar
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