SERIELAND: Nadège Beausson-Diagne, itinerary of a black actress in French series

You must have seen Nadège Beausson-Diagne on your screens.

Revealed to the general public for her roles in the series Plus Belle la Vie, Nadège Beausson-Diagne has also made a name for herself in the cinema in the comedies Bienvenue chez les ch'tis, Podium and Rien à rire.  

From her debut as an actress, and her entry into the conservatory, her black skin is a drag.

He is offered to play caricature characters, secondary roles.

On the set, she also faces the ordinary racism of directors or screenwriters.

But out of the question for her to be locked in boxes.

She fights for intelligent roles and outside the clichés.

Recently, she also got involved.

She testified in the essay "Black is not my job" initiated by the French actress Aïssa Maïga.

In SERIELAND, the podcast of Europe 1 Studio, Eva Roque receives the actress and director for a big interview with Margaux Baralon.

How do some screenwriters show racism?

What roles escape racialized actors and actresses?

Is the profession changing?

Nadège Beausson-Diagne tells you about her itinerary.

That of a racialized woman in the middle of the French series. 

Do you want to listen to the other episodes of SERIELAND? 

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Interview transcript

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

What an emotion!

"Whether we are black or white", I will remember that from "Plus belle la vie".

It is a very, very great memory for me.

I played Commissioner Sarah Douala for three years.

It's been five years that I am no longer in this series and people continue to talk to me about it every day.

It marked people.

And I find the great thing about popular shows is that they bring together.

We can criticize “Plus belle la vie”, but it is still one of the first series in which all of French society is represented.

So, it feels good. 

Eva Roque

Welcome to SERIELAND, episode 6. Big interview with actress and director Nadège Beausson-Diagne.

She appeared in a silver outfit, braided hair, a princess headband on her forehead, a dazzling smile and a raised fist on the red steps of the Cannes Film Festival.

It was in May 2018, alongside the actress Nadège Beausson-Diagne.

Fifteen other black women, Aïssa Maïga, Firmine Richard or Sonia Rolland, all signatories of a manifesto book entitled "Black is not my job".

On this Cannes parterre symbolizing the power of international cinema, being a black female actress in a series or in the cinema suddenly appeared to be an obstacle course.

Discrimination, stereotypes.

This is the daily life of these actresses who have chosen to shout, to shout loudly: "no, no, my skin color cannot determine a role. No, I do not define myself by this same skin color."

At the end of 2020, have things changed?

Did Nadège Beausson-Diagne, whom the general public discovered in "Podium", "Bienvenue chez les ch'tis", or even "Plus Belle la Vie" for four seasons still struggling to find roles?

Does this activist for the rights of women and minorities keep hope and believe in changing mentalities?

Welcome to SERIELAND to meet Nadège Beausson-Diagne.

Hello Nadège Beausson-Diagne. 

"We can criticize '

Plus Belle la Vie'

, but it is still one of the first series in which all of French society is represented."

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

Hello Eva Roque! 

Eva Roque

I would like to introduce you to Margaux Baralon, who will accompany me throughout this interview.

Are you going to keep your fist raised since that day in May 2018 on the steps of the Cannes Film Festival? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

In fact, I think I was born with a raised fist.

My parents met at a demonstration in support of Angela Davis when she was incarcerated, and one of my first names is Angela, for Angela Davis.

So I think the activism is in me.

We have always kept our fists raised.

Moreover, I will never thank my friend enough, the actress and director Aïssa Maïga for having initiated this book since it was she who brought us together.

And it's really important because in this collective book, we didn't just talk about us as an actress, we spoke for society, for that famous glass ceiling, for impossibility, for invisibility people of color.

I want to say that racialized means people who are victims of racism.

It is a sociological term.

So here we are, we spoke for everyone and especially for young people.

Besides, the book worked.

It's still a great success.

We can say that for one on a subject that could be divisive.

Now, the people needed to hear what they themselves was going through.

And above all, we told everything with personal anecdotes, what we were going through.

People couldn't imagine we were going through this, actually.

Eva Roque

We will come back to this throughout the interview.

You were talking about "Plus Belle la Vie", the opening credits of which have just been heard.

When the production of "Plus Belle la Vie" called you in 2010 to embody Commissioner Douala, did you feel, at the time, to be the black on duty? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

Ben no.

So, in fact, what happened is that I'm a little cheeky.

I knew one of the producers and I had watched an episode.

And it was a bit of a cliché episode about the undocumented.

And so, I send him with my legendary impertinence, a very nice, very sympathetic word saying "when there are blacks in your series, it's only undocumented", knowing that I have nothing against the sans -papers.

But it was a way of saying that we don't have to always represent black people in that position.

And when they looked for the role of the coup commissioner, they sent me a note.

They said to me "do you want to be part of the adventure".

So he did a fake casting since I was the only one featured on the channel.

In fact, I was not the black on duty because there were no stereotypes in my character construction.

And the little things that were unconscious in some writers, I have to say.

Me, I did the job of deconstructing right away, that is to say, at one point, an example where I had to talk to my character who was one of my best friends.

I had to say "ah tonight, my friend and my lover, I'm going to make him a chicken colombo".

Chicken colombo which is a very, very good West Indian dish.

But my character, we didn't know where she already came from, first thing.

Second, who cares a little.

Why I had to make the chicken colombo.

Because I think unconsciously, the screenwriter said to himself "Ah, she's a black woman, she makes black dishes" and so I said, I'm going to make a blanquette of veal!

Eva Roque

I was sure of it.

I hesitated between the blanquette and the pot-au-feu.

I should have bet on the blanquette right away ... Do you have good memories of these four years in the France 3 soap opera? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

Yeah, but on top of that, I really liked this character.

At first it was a little too dry etc.

Me, I also really worked by telling the screenwriter that it is necessary to make it flexible, because it is not because she is a woman of power that she is necessarily tough.

And I really took him into a madness.

I think she really had things.

She was a little tight and I loved it.

And above all, I come from the theater and I love the team.

It was Comrade Stéphane, Fabienne, it was really something very cheerful.

And then, you still have to tell yourself that it also feels good to do good.

And this series was good for some people in the business.

When I told them that I was going to do "Plus belle la vie", I have the impression that I told them that I have generalized cancer and that it was a shame to go and do a popular series so that I came from the cinema.

Actually, I don't understand that.

I shot with Jean-Luc Godard and Jean-Luc Godard watches "Plus belle la Vie".

You must know it.

Eva Roque

Can you explain to us why you disappeared from the series? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

It is the subject that annoys.

In fact, at one point, to explain to people.

In fact, we are intermittent in the show, that is to say that we have to make a certain number of contract fees, to be compensated when we are not working, because obviously you see us working a lot.

But most of the time, unfortunately, we don't work.

So you have to have as many contracts as possible.

And me, when I was in "Plus belle la Vie", as I was often in the position of commissioner, I was in relation to a set and sometimes I could shoot one day.

Even though you often see me on the screen.

I was filming one day, in the month.

A day of work is a day of wages.

So there you have it, I'm auditioning for a casting, to play in a TF1 series.

Her name was Pep's, my agent says it in production, etc.

They say there is no problem.

And then finally, I think they have a problem with that, but they don't tell me about it.

And so, for six months, I'm in a pretty schizophrenic relationship since no one talks to me.

But I feel that there is something.

In fact, they had decided to kick me out, but they didn't tell me.

Which is completely their right, once again, I am not a permanent employee.

And so, suddenly, I had to start from that fact.

But as an activist, I left telling the truth.

And then there you go, we entered into a kind of confrontation with the production where they said "but no, we told him".

Anyway, in fact, it's mostly that at a given moment, you're an artist and you can't just play a role.

And I have no regrets and I would never spit in the soup.

"More beautiful life", it brought me a lot of things and I'm very happy to have gone to do Pep's too.

So I have no regrets.

In fact, it's just that it went a bit wrong.

Eva Roque

, where you still play the school principal, I wonder if there isn't an authority problem with Nadège Beausson-Diagne, the writers and directors do not imagine you each time, only in a somewhat strict role .... 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

You noticed, they are women of authority but crazy!

Perhaps it is madness rather than authority!

"Since you are black, we did not give you the first prize"

Eva Roque

At what point in your career are you going to understand that it is difficult for you as a black actress and as a woman too? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

First of all, it starts at the Conservatory, where they explain to me that I was supposed to have the first interpretation prize.

But the director told me off "how black you are. We didn't give you the first prize since you won't be able to make a career."

And so, he had given to a Valerie whom I salute.

Wherever you are, I say 'wherever you are' because she never became an actress.

In fact, of all my promotion, I am the only one to have become an actress.

But because I already had an incredible resilience in me, because it could have broken me completely.

So already I understand that there is something where you are black, you are not supposed to be there.

Eva Roque

How do you react when someone tells you that, even off ...

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

In fact, I couldn't understand what he was telling me.

Because for me, we are in a place which is art and precisely this is where we can embody everything and I dream of the Peter Brook theater where all the actors, whether Asian, North Africans, Africans, French, in short, everyone can play anything.

And there, they put me something.

That is to say that in fact, all that I did not have in my life and in the education that I had, they put me in a mirror.

They tell me no, you're black first.

I was there, but I did not understand.

It took me a while to figure it out, actually.

And afterwards, throughout my career, it's not that we build ourselves, but we build ourselves against we are all the time, all the time, already, a woman, you have to know that anyway.

Patriarchal society, sorry.

But the woman is already de facto inferior.

And the black woman, it's Spike Lee who says it, it's double the penalty and that's really it.

And denouncing the facts is not victimizing oneself, since that was also what was important in relation to the book.

We all talked in our area and we were told "ah but you are exaggerating, etc".

And so, unless there is no pot in this photo that you were showing earlier, there are sixteen fools, sixteen liars.

But not at all.

And what we told was a film about what we were experiencing.

So we are always looking for treasures of ingenuity so as not to be depressed, because what we are experiencing is violent.

Eva Roque

So there, you told us about the first fact of ordinary racism in your career.

But more personal question when you realize that you are black? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

In fact, I understand it in the little everyday things that many people of color will understand.

You are in a bakery, for example, that you ask for a baguette, and that one will speak to you like that (slowly) then of two things one if I do not speak the language, it is not because you speak like that which I will understand better.

And so, she, then, she, what does she want?

She, she wants?

And I was like, what are these people?

And then afterwards, well my mother was also an activist.

My mother is Métis, Breton and Ivorian.

And she explained to me, she gave me the keys to understanding how to look at others.

Then there are some wonderful things at school where, in fact, there are classmates who forget that you are black, when we are reading Emma Bovary, there is a long description of white hands.

And then my girlfriend, she says to me "ah, show your hands if they are white."

And then she apologizes and I say no, thank you for not saying to yourself, "I'm not going to ask her because she's black".

So, it's pretty quickly that society reminds us of that. 

"There are some roles that we don't have access to at all"

Margaux Baralon

Did the fact of being black

that some roles escaped you? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

Of course.

So already there are certain roles to which we do not have access at all, that is to say that they are not offered to us in fact, in certain types of professions.

I had told in the book, for example, when you are black, you cannot be a lawyer.

It was clearly told to my agent.

And after, say, the casting, we still auditioned you, okay.

The director chooses you.

It turns out you were fine that day.

There is a moment when if there is a choice in a leading role between, between a white actress and a black actress and well, we will say, people are not ready.

This famous sentence.

The viewer is not ready, the viewer is not ready.

And so, for a long time that we did not understand that, we can say that we are zero all the time.

But really.

I didn't say I was the best actress in the world, but I know when I'm good and I know I'm not.

And when I'm fine, I used to say to myself, but I don't understand.

And then I saw who they had chosen.

I said to myself, but wait, she's not good any more, I didn't understand.

And I had to ask myself the question, to analyze that.

And then I also found a great shrink who helps you not to get completely crazy, because it's violent.

Margaux Baralon

Beyond the roles, there is also the fact of landing important roles.

We know that very often, people of color are referred to roles, often to assert.

There's also the issue of trying to land a well-written, lead role.

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

Still the question of construction, of racism and therefore of the look of the white person on racialized people, who has a distorted look because most of the time, is seen by an unconscious racism.

Me, I talk all the time about this unconscious racism there because there are people of good will, for example, I said to fellow directors: "why in your film why such and such is not black or why not Maghrebian? "

They answer me "ah, I didn't think about it, or if put it that would mean ...".

It is as if a justification is needed.

And from that point on, that's where it goes wrong because I don't want black roles.

I want roles actually.

That's what's wrong, but it's the construction of racism that is like that. 

Eva Roque

So it's very interesting because I would like to make you listen to extracts from a film in which you play ... It's Podium, the film by Yann Moix, released in 2004. Nadège Beausson-Diagne, me, there is something that jumped out at me when I saw this clip again.

You play a Clodette by Benoît Poelvoorde who takes himself for Claude François.

And it is true that Claude François was always accompanied by women, including a black one.

How do you see it?

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

Claude François, who was inspired by the United States, he brought what he, he liked in dance, in the show.

Because it's true that he was a show man.

And suddenly, it is the first to have brought different women than the white women called basic French.

And it was amazing because at the time it was a revolution.

And what's more, what's very interesting is that he brought in black women who had their own hair.

I'm talking about this because the history of hair is quite something too.

She had short hair or afro hair.

In any case, we do not ask them to move away from the essence of what it was.

And that was a revolution.

So me, I have lots of friends when I made this film who told me "what are you going to do a Clodette?".

So me, personally, I don't have a passion for Les Clodettes, since I was at the Conservatory working on Chopin.

So I found this out much later in my life.

They are two different worlds.

And I loved making this film.

I listen to this excerpt again with great joy and I realized that people were also very happy that there was a black actress.

Besides, I was, we were on the poster.

The four women, etc.

And for once, good bah, so there, we can say that we are just in the basic sexism since we are all in shorts and thongs.

But there is no particular way to be mistreated, let's say, it's another struggle.

Eva Roque

You were talking about the book that you presented at the Cannes Film Festival and about which you relate in particular a scene of ordinary racism.

The role is not for you because it is about playing the lawyer you were talking about earlier, named Sandrine.

And I wondered if you couldn't play a woman named Sandrine, how are the first names of the characters you play chosen?

Has it ever happened, once, to ask the production to have a different first name than the one you had been assigned? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

Thank you for this question.

People don't realize.

So for a long, long time, I had a lot of worries with Joséphine Baker, but a lot of worries because ultimately, in the scenarios, it was Josephine and in fact, it was in relation to Josephine Baker.

This is the unconscious racism I'm talking about, etc.

We endured the legacy of Josephine's banana belt for a very long time.

I spoke with her.

I wanted to talk, but that's it, I made my peace with it.

And if it's not Joséphine in general, it's Fatoumata.

Very nice name.

But why do I want to say.

It is as if it was absolutely necessary, if the spectator does not realize that you are black, that you be given a black first name.

Once, in a play, I remember, I didn't have a job, it was super complicated.

A play with Michel Galabru, Bernadette Lafont, that I loved so much.

I receive the part and I see that the character is called Blanchette.

Because the joke was that Michel Galabru was on stage.

He called me Blanchette, and I had to come on stage.

And there, people were hilarious.

You should know that this play, it had been performed ten years earlier and that an actress that I know had played that.

She had played under the name of Blanchette.

And I assure you, I didn't have a job at all.

And I needed this money.

I arrived, I said "excuse me. First thing can we change this name?".

I am told: "Oh yes, of course, etc.".

I called myself Lucette because there had to be a rhyme in -ette.

In any case, I was able to do it.

And what is crazy and which made me very sad, I had to leave this room at one point because I was filming.

The actress replaced me and she took over the first name Blanchette.

"Things are changing, but so slowly"

Eva Roque

I would like to share my experience with you because for a few days, I had been thinking about who to invite to talk about these questions of racial representation in the series and I found myself typing on Google: "Black French actress".

I found it extremely violent.

Suddenly, I took full account of what you denounce on a daily basis.

I was unable to give more than five or six names of black actresses even then, and this is what struck me as violent, even though I seemed to be sensitized to this issue.

Do you still have the impression that in France, we are very late on these questions of representativeness?

Or on the contrary, that things begin, begin to change?

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

Things are changing, but so slowly that if we do not campaign, if we do not speak, if as you do to invite me, if we do not continue to deconstruct, to educate, that is -to say that my great grandchildren, they still will not have seen the change.

Aïssa and I have been doing this job for 25 years, more than 25 years, Firmine Richard who started, etc.

Things are changing so slowly and above all what scared me is that Assa Sylla, Karidja Touré, who were young actresses, they were experiencing what we had experienced twenty years ago.

So, that's why it changes very little.

Of course I can say, I'm not going to tell you it doesn't change, it changes.

But I come back to a painful episode.

When Aïssa Maïga at the Caesars, count the racialized people in the hall of the Caesars.

Obviously, first, we did not understand that she did.

We were just thinking of a punchline and humor compared to 12, that was the number of film nominations from Roman Polanski.

But it is above all that she wanted to say "look how little", 12 people of color. And of course that changes. Of course Lina Coudrier, she had the Caesar, we are super happy, and Roschdy Zem. What we mean is that it changes very little and it also changes very little in the type of role proposed. That's what she meant above all.

Margaux Baralon

You have done theater, cinema, series.

Is there a difference precisely, on this representation?

I tell myself that the series are more recent, are we improving in representativeness in the series? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

So already, I find that at the Theater, I play much more interesting roles than in cinema and on TV.

Because I do not know.

But there may be something with the distance from the set, which makes me have been offered really much more interesting roles.

And indeed I find, a little kick in French cinema, that television is changing that, and in particular via platforms.

There is something, they got hold of this question there, much more.

We see it when we watch the series, the cinema is still a little late. 

Eva Roque

So precisely, there is a French series that particularly marked me this year.

It's 

 It is signed Lucien Jean-Baptiste.

He is the husband of Aïssa Maïga, about whom we have been talking since the beginning of this interview.

A black couple who adopted a white child.

And they are also the parents of another boy they naturally had.

And that poses many, many questions.

Why do we have to wait until 2020 to hear this kind of dialogue on French television? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

Because you know, I asked myself a lot of questions about that.

It's because there are people for whom it was easy to be there.

And who do not want to move and who ultimately do not want to give way.

It's a story of privileges and continuing to have privileges.

And we can see that when we are not in the seraglio, we are pointed out everything or we always have the impression of being the exception.

That's why I say I don't want black roles.

I want roles and there you go.

Like this term diversity.

We have the impression that it is a country called diversity.

And there is everything there, blacks, gays, disabled, women, etc.

We all come from diversity.

No, actually.

And so, that's why it's a story to appropriate our own stories too.

It is also necessary that in the institutions, that the people who are decision-makers, it is also necessary to move.

Because here, we are talking about artists, but we can talk about technical teams.

We can talk about production teams when we arrive.

It's still very, very, very rare that there are racialized people in a team, so that too.

And then after, you have to go to the chains.

You also have to go see who are the people who decide to make a series or not.

Eva Roque

But does that mean that, for example, you are in favor of quotas? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

So I am obviously in favor of quotas because quotas, the positive of quotas, is that we have seen in politics, without quotas and we would not have as many women politicians who today ' hui, after the quotas, when i am told yes, but then suddenly, we will take you because you are black.

No, no, no, not at all, comrade.

It means that I will be given the opportunity to have access to roles, jobs that I would not have had access to before.

In fact, that's why I'm obviously very happy to say it in relation to the Oscars 2024 and the list of criteria that must be met to be in competition for feature films.

And it's the same for technical teams and artistic teams, it's very important because without it, I'm sorry, but it won't change.

Eva Roque

So undoubtedly, you saw "Simply Black", the film by Jean Pascal released in July at the cinema.

He is also the author Jean-Pascal Zadi, of an excellent web series that I recommend to you and which is available on france.tv and which is called

"A white person will say the same thing as a person of color, but it will be heard a lot more"

Eva Roque

Behind the humor, there is a truth, in fact, they use words for that. 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

Me, I find that what is really good with humor as a vector is that you can say a lot of things.

And then people laugh at first.

And then they do "wait, but what did he just say, by the way?"

This is very important because there is a projection of who we are as people of color that are not who we are.

And we see it.

Studies have been made, in particular on the perception of the black man, potential aggressiveness, etc.

We, women, are more than hyper sexual, and suddenly, our words, it is difficult to be heard.

And we can see it clearly since when a white person will say the same thing as a racialized person, but it will be heard much more.

So humor allows that.

Margaux Baralon

Humor allows that.

But don't we also lack in France, precisely, very strong fictions, politically engaged on a register can be more dramatic when one thinks of the United States, they have series like "Seven Seconds" or "In their regards ", which are two Netflix series on police violence against blacks.

These series, we are not kidding what.

It is extremely committed.

Isn't that lacking in French production? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

I agree with you.

And then it's interesting because ultimately, the only things we see in France, when there are people of color, obviously, is humor.

There is the movie “Les Misérables” which is great, but it is an exception.

Me, I really want us to be on something else.

In fact, I really want to tell stories.

Eva Roque

We can make the transition with what you are saying, you become a director! 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

Yes!

It's a big joke about that.

I am an old actress, but a young director.

And in fact, I participated thanks to Laurence Lascaris, who is the producer of "The other side of the periphery", which notably produced

with Ahmed Sylla.

So she set up a concept, it's called "In my hall".

It is a director or a director, who goes to a city in working-class neighborhoods.

It is in metropolitan France, but not only.

I had the chance to participate in Guadeloupe, so I come back to that.

And so, the concept is that you come for three days, you listen to the inhabitants, the inhabitants, then you go for two days to write the scenarios according to what they have told you.

And then the following week, for four days, you work with them and so you make three films in two and a half days, which is a kind of Koh-Lanta of directing.

It was the production assistant who said that, I'll take that back from her.

And it's exceptional because in fact, for me, that has all the meaning of my activist and artistic and political commitments, that is to say that you come to a place, to people from working-class neighborhoods .

We keep telling them: "you come out of a red light district, you will never have anything in your life, you will be a dealer, you will be I don't know what, you will not study, etc." .

And we come to give them another look at themselves and also to plant this little seed of the path of possibilities to which they did not even have access.

They never imagined when I told them that I live in Créteil.

My mother is not in the cinema.

And now, I am a woman and I have been doing this job for 25 years.

This is exceptional.

We are really in everything that I like to make concrete, in fact, precisely what you were talking about in the representation of racialized people and it is really exceptional.

And in my films, there is humor, but not only.

Eva Roque

Two questions for the director.

Yes, first question does being a director put you in another position, i.e. that's it, you are the boss and at least, the questions of choice in relation to the race or sex does not arise.

Second question, do you pay attention, as a director, to the parity or to the representation of each other, even in the technical team? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

So the first thing is that I said to myself, as I am an actress, I am new to directing, I thought that the chauvinistic reactions I was hearing were because of that.

And since I am mentoring with female director friends, they said no to me.

Nay.

It's because you're a woman.

So your word, we don't care.

That is, I come up with my ideas, etc.

But there was all the time the op chief or first assistant taking my place and trying to take my place, it was bad knowing me because I had done the job.

So, already, we realize that even if these are your ideas, your frameworks, the idea of ​​light that you have, well, we bring you back, so that is the patriarchy, always this thing of the woman , therefore you are inferior.

That is the first thing and the other thing.

Me, I watched, obviously, when I wrote.

I have already ensured that there are as many people as possible, but really through the fact that they are inhabitants, inhabitants.

I wanted all generations plus to be represented.

But I paid attention to parity.

Really, I was like oh yeah?

After that, I was careful not to have too many heroines by default, so really in my films there are as many men as women and of all ages.

And in the technical team, as I was in Guadeloupe, I didn't know everyone, etc.

But all the same, here, I am looking.

I met a woman, I think who will do the mixing.

I was so happy.

It's important because when we are aware of these questions, we also have a responsibility, me, I'm in the 50/50 collective too.

It was women directors who initiated this, in particular to denounce the lack of parity in fictions, in performances, in institutes, in bodies, etc.

And then they also work on questions that are dear to me, problems on sexual violence, on filming, diversity.

So there you have it, it's really a collective, really very, very interesting, very strong, and which has succeeded in ensuring that in festivals, now, there is a charter and that if we do not correspond to this charter, we have less money.

So we can do things.

Eva Roque

Nadège beausson-Diagne there is an image that appeared in front of you and behind you.

Series available on OCS called

which is worn by an absolutely luminous woman called Issa Rae.

So, a priori, you know it.

I offer you a small extract.

She's with her friends and it's all about sex. 

Eva Roque

I want to ask you, what about sex?

Are mixed couples, for example, not too rare on TV and in series? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

But it is always this story of prism which tells, which will decide to put actors or not.

What do we want to say.

Obviously I find that we are still really cautious.

And then each time, it is above all that it is necessary to justify what.

That is to say that me, my husband is white Armenian.

But in fact, I don't care.

I mean, I love him himself.

So, in fact, that's really what you have to strive for.

Always, always, always, always telling yourself why not?

As at the base, when there is a role, there is no incidence, if it is a woman.

Well after the next step, it is, that does not have any incidence why it is not a racialized person?

"Have you seen this exceptional One with Adèle Haenel and Aïssa Maïga from

Liberation

? That changes things."

Eva Roque

When are you going to be able to tell yourself that's it, it's getting better, are we on the right track?

Where did we get there? 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

I would like to tell you tomorrow, but I fear it will be the day after tomorrow.

Listen, I don't know.

I find that it moves, it moves.

And above all, we are making alliances.

I can't say it all, but we are making alliances with awake, intelligent white people and people.

Because it's not a black problem, it's a human problem.

And when we understand that, we will have already advanced.

Because, you see, you invited me over here to talk about this.

It's great.

These are called allies and we need allies.

And now with Aïssa Maïga, I talk a lot because I love her very much.

We have allies, we have very intelligent people.

Have you seen this exceptional One with Adèle Haenel and Aïssa Maïga from Liberation?

It changes things.

They are changing because the struggles are transversal.

And when we understand that, we will move forward much faster.

This is the intersectional feminism that we are a part of.

Eva Roque

But maybe once you run out of allies it will mean all is well.

You won't need us anymore. 

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

I'm not sure it's right away ....

Eva Roque

Margaux, are you also optimistic? 

Margaux Baralon

Yes, it depends on the day, but there, today, after this interview, very. 

Eva Roque

Margaux, do you have a tip from a series where the black community is represented that you like or that you want to advise? 

Margaux Baralon

Well, I really liked the

, which is on Amazon Prime Video, where we don't have the impression at all that it's going to be about racial issues.

And in fact it is.

It really underpins the series and it's brought in very fine, it's really, really interesting. 

Eva Roque

Yes, it's on Amazon Prime Video, with Reese Witherspoon, it's very very good!

Nadège Beausson-Diagne

Me, I have one too.

I love Michaela Coel, who is just exceptional.

If you haven't seen "I may destroy you" on OCS.

Really, you have to see this series which, in addition, speaks in a really very, very intelligent and very thoughtful and very subtle way of what is after rape, of the relationship with the body, of traumatic amnesia so really. I advise you to watch this series, it is incredible. 

Eva Roque

I validate at 1000% I think this is my favorite series of the year, really.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much Nadège Beausson-Diagne for your frankness and your words.

We are waiting to discover your first films.

There will be three.

I know that there are also projects on TV and we will continue to follow you.

And then to you who are listening to us, I encourage you to read "Black is not my job".

It's published by Éditions du Seuil.

And then another extremely interesting reading "The racial question in American series", it is at Sciences Po editions the presses signed Olivier Estèves and Sébastien Lefait. 

"SERIELAND" is a Europe 1 studio podcast

Author and presentation: Eva Roque

Chronicle: Margaux Baralon

Production: Christophe Pierrot

Editorial project manager: Adèle Ponticelli

Distribution and editing: Clémence Olivier, Magalie Butault and Tristan Barraux

Graphic design: Karelle Villais

Director of Europe 1 Studio: Olivier Lendresse