“The country is far from healthy”: Angela Davis on the structure of the US police system and racism

- You use the phrase "racial capitalism." Has the role of the revolutionary changed since 1972, when, in your words, it consisted in the desire to change society in such a way that it takes into account the needs and interests of the people?

- In general, the term “racial capitalism” was used by Cedric Robinson, a professor of African American studies, political scientist, who emphasized that capitalism has always been associated with racism - from the very beginning to the present day. That is, racism and capitalism should not be considered as two separate phenomena, because they are interconnected. However, now, it seems to me, a turning point has come - not only for the United States, but for the whole world.

We all witnessed the lynching of George Floyd, and this happened at a time when the world went into self-isolation, trying to avoid becoming infected with COVID-19. It is unlikely that anyone expected that this event would receive just such a development, but there was a certain combination of circumstances: on the one hand, these were manifestations of structural racism, because of which blacks and Hispanics were more vulnerable to coronavirus, and on the other, not only the terrible murder of George Floyd, but also the murder of Ahmad Arbury, Breonne Taylor and Tony McDade.

And, it must be said, it is very important that people now focus on structural problems, and not just require individual police officers to be responsible for their actions. They call for the demilitarization of the
police, for the deprivation of its funding, for its disbandment.

- State-level police representatives may say that their reaction to the protests caused by the murder of George Floyd cannot be compared with the measures that, for example, were taken with respect to the organization MOVE in 1985 in Philadelphia. Then there were dead children, the bombing of houses from the air and so on ... Do not you think that the current situation is better?

- The situation has improved in the sense that now we can more effectively analyze and better understand the essence of the police activities that people in this country have had to deal with for a very long time. It is important to remember that the legacy of the slave system affects the principles of current law enforcement. Let us not forget about the patrols that operated during the time of slavery to oppress slaves, and about the subsequent racist laws, and also about how law enforcement forces were used to carry out terrible lynching.

Today, the situation is better because we are aware of the institutional nature of racism. We do not just say that these or those separate people are responsible for these or those terrible crimes - we are pointing to systems, to structures. And this focus on understanding structural racism, institutional racism, state racism is a relatively new phenomenon. And this is exactly what gives today's situation such interest.

• © Jason Redmond / AFP

- The city of Auckland, from which you got in touch with us, which is considered quite progressive in the world, spends a huge part of its budget on police and policing. What do you think Baldwin (writer James Baldwin. - RT) had in mind , saying that the health of a country can be judged by the people it elects as its representatives or advocates. How healthy is your country now?

“I think the world sees that this country is by no means healthy: that our police departments are the most striking manifestation of structural racism, that our prisons are filled with blacks and Latinos ... We must follow the abolitionist mindset if we want to guarantee the future of our city, our state, our country and the world. 

- But despite the breakthrough in the perception of these problems, the budgets of the police still seem sky-high ... The budget of the New York Police Department is six billion dollars - this is more than the defense budget of Vietnam (a country that, it must be said, defeated the United States ) So what is behind the massive police budgets?

- The emphasis on police activities and the detention of people, which led to crowded prisons, is very much dictated by racism. The emphasis is on “law and order”, rather than focusing on the needs of racial minorities. And I note that today we are doing what was supposed to be done immediately after the end of slavery ... I want to say that efforts should have been made here long ago to understand what changes our society needs to ensure equality and justice for all - in particular with regard to economic issues, racial and gender affiliation.

- Scotland voted to stop the export of tear gas, rubber bullets and police shields to the United States. Do you think other countries should stop selling US equipment designed to curb unrest?

- Of course yes. It seems to me that it is important to note here that in 2014, in the context of the Ferguson uprising, the militarization of the American police was revealed ... It turned out that the tear gas used in occupied Palestine was also used in Ferguson. We learned that many US police departments, including small ones, such as the Ferguson Police Department, were trained by the Israeli military in anti-insurgency operations. I also heard that the police of Minneapolis received training from Israel. I’m not sure if this concerned those policemen accused of the murder of George Floyd. But it seems to me that we need to remember that there is an important link between the confrontations in the United States and in Palestine. This connection was discussed in the 1960s, then in 2014, and now it must also be emphasized.

“You mentioned crowded prisons ... Some  consider Biden to be the personification of this phenomenon.” What would you say to those who are going to cast their vote for Joe Biden in November?

“I'm not particularly thrilled with Joe Biden.” In the future, we need to free ourselves from the two-party system, both parties of which are too closely connected with corporate capitalism. But this, of course, is a long-term goal. And before the upcoming elections, less than five months are left.

The point of these elections, in my opinion, is not the choice of a candidate who can lead us in the right direction - their essence will be the choice of a candidate who will most effectively respond to demands to expand the freedom of action of the developing movement against racism.

Biden is a largely problematic option, and not only because of his past and the role he played in moving towards the widespread use of detention. He made it clear that he was opposed to the disbandment of the police, while this is exactly what we need - we need to rethink the concept of public security.

But - I emphasize "but" - Biden is much more likely to take the requirements of the general public seriously. With a much greater probability than the current occupant of the White House. At the elections that will be held in November this year, we will be required to vote not so much for the best candidate, but for or against ourselves. And it seems to me that in order for us to vote for ourselves, we will have to campaign for Biden ...

- So you don’t think that the protests in connection with the murder of George Floyd will lead to the creation of a new political party that could take part in the November elections?

- No, I personally don’t think so ... Actually, of course, who knows? .. It just takes a lot of time to create a party. We are talking about new parties, and they are appearing, but to form a party that would meet the interests of the general public and have the necessary infrastructure in order to manage to secure enough support from voters to defeat Donald Trump is a completely different matter ...

- You talked about depriving the police of funding, and you also advocate the abolition of prisons ... How does it feel to live in a country that proportionally sends more people to jail than did Stalin or Mao Zedong at one time?

- I have been participating in work against prison sentences since the 1970s. I joined the struggle, the movements for the release of political prisoners, such as Lolita LeBron, as Bobby Seal (from the Black Panther Party). Many of us have been calling for the abolition of prisons for decades. In general, my acquaintance with the idea of ​​abolishing such institutions began with the uprising that took place in Attica prison in 1971, when I was still in custody.

Racism, which, as we know, is the driving force behind the structure of America’s police system, is equally inherent in its prison system and is responsible for the widespread use of detention. The current calls for the abolition of the police in its current form echo the ideas that have been voiced for decades in calls for the abolition of prisons.

And we call for the abolition of prisons because they are just dumps, which throw people who are the result of society’s inability to cope with problems of poverty, physical and mental health, education and so on ...

See the full version of the interview on RTD.