“We Become the Power of Evil”: Oliver Stone on US Foreign Policy, the Vietnam War and Work in Hollywood

- Oliver, welcome! You dared to create films that open people's eyes to the truth, you have challenged Hollywood cinema, the “truth” that you are used to showing in American films.

- Exactly.

- Have you always held that position?

- Nope. A life - this is evolution. In my youth, my father was a Republican, conservative, Wall Street economist. He raised me with these values, and I thought that this is the only existing world. It was called "New York - the center of the world." I was born in 1946, then the United States was a leading world power, and still remain to some extent, but then they possessed great wealth, as well as an egocentric worldview. And there I grew up and went to school.

My parents divorced when I was 14 years old and I went to a boarding school. In the end, I ended up in Vietnam, because I could not get along with this system. I did not know what I want, but I clearly knew what I did not want: to continue to be a product of that situation at a boarding school on the east coast of the USA and Yale.

So I dropped out of Yale, went to teach in Vietnam, entered the service of the merchant fleet and, finally, two years later, returned to the army and served in Vietnam as an infantryman, at the lowest level. I wanted to be at the lowest level, and I ended up there ... I entered the military service and went to serve. I spent about 15 months in the jungle, in the 25th Infantry Regiment and the 1st Cavalry.

By the time I finished the service, I had already seen a lot. I had a different approach to life, but I had to find my way back: I went to a film school, looked for work in New York, I was a taxi driver, I did a bit of everything ... A film school helped me a lot. I made short films, and finally, six years later, I had the opportunity. I wrote the script for the movie Midnight Express, which won international success.

- How has the harsh experience of the Vietnam War changed your views?

“I think that the trip to Vietnam, where I saw the American army fighting, was a turning point for me. Honestly, I could not believe my eyes. As if the whole city had been taken and moved to another country, along with giant military bases and a huge, uncountable amount of equipment. Which, by the way, remained in Vietnam: we just took it apart for parts, and most of it ended up in the hands of the so-called “enemy” - Vietnamese from the north of the country.

We have developed so many technologies, created so many different departments ... We have moved the American way of life to Vietnam. And it didn’t work! We had an army, a navy, an air force. Three different kinds of troops that were doing the same thing: their responsibilities intersected, and this led to a huge, monstrous waste of money. It's kind of like our American hobby, a system that we're too used to.

When I returned to America, I thought: "You can’t wage war like that." Frankly, I think that since we decided to get involved in this stupid war, we should have fought much harder. It was necessary to send special forces there, the commander ... To operate at such a level. And you had to sit in the jungle. And do not lean out just to wash clothes or cook dinner - what nonsense ?! You need to fight hard. In my opinion, we never learned this lesson.

• US military in Vietnam
• globallookpress.com
• © Keystone Pictures USA

After 2001, when we were attacked, killed our citizens, did something terrible, we again reacted too emotionally. We were mad with fear - fear began to determine our thoughts. And instead of saying, “Afghanistan? Well, now we’ll figure it out ”... Initially, we did just that, and it took us a month to settle everything. One month! Al-Qaeda broke up and a month later they rushed to the run!

But no, this was not enough for us, and we decided to deploy our military bases there and our regular army, and the Air Force, and drones ... One by one. And when there was no one to fight, we went to Iraq. The September 11 attacks did not have anything to do with it. But no, well, because there is an enemy! People like Dick Cheney convinced us that we have enemies all over the world, and that we must fight on all fronts. For everyone. He is talking about Syria right now. These are the desires of our, as I put it, “neoconservatives”. Although, in fact, they are the instigators of war. They used to be called that. The instigators of war.

So my career in cinema suffered, because sometimes I said things that American producers completely dislike. They do not want to see this. It is safe to say that Hollywood has changed since 2001. Now censorship is much more. The army and the CIA in the American media are always presented in a favorable light.

“You constantly question the official version of US history.” Do you consider yourself a person going against the system?

- Yes.

- Does it cause you trouble in the USA?

- Of course.

- Because in Latin America it can be said that even if you criticize and question the state system, nevertheless, you are allowed to make films.

- Yes, they do, but there is economic censorship. In other words, if you do not make a lot of money on films containing criticism, then they will not be released. Yes, you can cut or lower the budget, but let's say this: if you want to make a film that criticizes the US Army, for example, about the history of the Iraq war, the history of terror that recently happened there ... If you show such stories, you won’t get anything.

Maybe in the 1980s, when I was shooting Platoon, Born on the Fourth of July and Heaven and Earth, I could have done it because the system was not so rigid.

Ideologies still existed, the Soviet Union existed, and after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, the world situation suddenly changed, and the United States began to feel more and more powerful, the dominant force in the universe, and began to act in this vein more actively.

They launched a war in Iraq, Panama and Grenada, and then returned to Iraq, then to Afghanistan. These events took place one after another, one war after another. And it is rooted deep in the psyche of people, and the media has accepted it.

So in the USA there is not a single party, not a single democratic force, with the exception of small parties, which would ask: “Why are we starting wars?” I did not hear this from the main candidates, except one or two from the democratic party, but they have there is no chance of victory.

In other words, Hillary Clinton and her team, as well as Joe Biden, are as militaristic as Republican Dick Cheney, only they express it in different ways. Hillary Clinton is a hawk. At the same time, Trump’s more peaceful approach, which asked, “Why are we fighting against the Russians?” Scared the military industry, politicians and the media so much that they started attacking him even before he became president. And they continued to do this from the first day of his presidency.

They tried to discredit him with the help of the “Russian cause”, accusing him of collaborating with Russia. These were internal political feuds in the guise of a “Russian conspiracy”, this dates back to the 1950s. It was just crazy, at least I think it was crazy. In fact, no matter who holds the presidency, this does not change anything. There is an established system in the State Department and the Ministry of Defense. As Putin said in an interview I took from him: “It doesn’t matter who the US president is.”

• US military in Iraq
• Reuters
• © Ammar Awad

- In fact, Trump spoke a lot, but did little. Sanctions against Venezuela began with Obama ...

- Exactly.

- ... as well as the destabilization of Syria, and for this he was awarded the Nobel Prize. But, in fact, Trump spoke a lot and did little, while Obama may have said much less, but did much more on the issue of foreign interventions.

“I agree with everything you say.” Perhaps this shows how closed the USA is, how much the country has deviated towards the right ideology. So much so that Hillary Clinton is considered a representative of the Democrats! I can not believe this! Democrats usually opposed war. We believed in the possibility of peaceful coexistence. We believed in d étente , "detente" in our relations with Russia. You remember? But there have always been forces opposed to this "detente." I find that hard to believe...

That is, in the USA there are no real left forces. We are talking about some right-wing parties that are fighting with other right-wing parties. There are only different degrees. For example, Trump is a representative of the "right." He did terrible things. For example, he decided to withdraw the United States from the Paris Agreement, from a deal with Iran. It is sad. But the worst and most dangerous thing is that he left the nuclear agreement. He just lied on this. And what we did with Russia is just awful.

We expose the whole world to the danger of nuclear war. We show aggression by developing new nuclear weapons. It will never end. He destabilized the whole world, and he is criticized for his lack of rigidity! When he said that he would withdraw troops from Syria, the Democrats pounced on him. They want him to order a bomb on Syria! There is no hope if two right-wing parties rule the ball. Who is in charge of everything? Who controls the situation? It's like a wizard from Oz. He holds the reins in his hands, in his right and left hands, but those on the left are just fake. In 2016, I voted for another party.

- For a batch of greens.

- I voted for Jill Stein. But it was a protest vote. What else can I do? I can make films, documentaries ...

“You are already making a great contribution by making your films.” Thanks to them, the level of awareness of people increases.

“You know ... How has the USA been able to achieve such successes since 1945?” After all, this is the most massive hypnosis in the history of mankind. It was as if they wrote on the screen: “We are for freedom, we are for democracy so that everyone becomes richer.” And they “sell” this legend over and over again that the USA is the best country on Earth. But the facts prove the opposite!

A huge number of people were killed in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea ... Perhaps millions of people were killed in the most atrocious, cruel way. And when Hillary Clinton says that the United States is the best country that has ever existed, that we have brought humanity the most peace and prosperity - this is stupid. If we behaved more like Switzerland or Sweden, if we, as a leading power, acted from the position of enlightenment, these problems would not have arisen, and the world would be better, much better than now.

And I mean real problems, such as medicine, education, and, as I always say, energy, clean energy. These are really important issues, unlike this geopolitical farce and claims that the US is in danger from China, Russia, Iran or Venezuela. They declared Venezuela a threat to US national security.

This is unbelievable! This is hypnosis in action! It cannot be otherwise! I am hypnotizing you, Rafael Correa! From now on, you will believe in a star-striped dream. This is pure Orwell! And it works ... This is an advertisement. And the greatest resistance to US domination is provided by such countries as Russia, China, Iran, Korea and Venezuela ... These are five countries, and they are very important.

NATO began to expand in 1999. How many more countries have joined NATO? Thirteen countries, all of which occur on the borders of Russia. This is a blatant violation of the agreement reached at the end of the Cold War. A blatant violation! USA does not deserve any trust!

- If we talk about violations of international law, then the blockade of Cuba and sanctions against Venezuela can also be attributed to this. This cannot be supported by international law.

- Of course.

- In Bolivia, they also played such a comedy! As in Venezuela, where the “self-proclaimed president” Guaido appeared and he was recognized by Washington ...

- Yes, yes, but all this is carefully hidden. This is carefully hidden! I don’t learn anything about Bolivia until I watch RT, but, unfortunately, they banned RT, that is, they simply excluded the channel from TV packages.

“What happened in Bolivia is a shame.” Just a shame. There is a coup. However, other countries, based on their own interests, immediately recognized the de facto government.

“But that is obvious enough.” I want to say that at present the RT channel offers high-quality information, and, nevertheless, it is constantly ridiculed in my country. I get distorted, extremely distorted information. I can read the American press, but all the media always write the same thing.

Okay, I understand your point of view, but I also want to hear an alternative opinion. However, we do not hear the point of view of Iran or China, we do not hear the point of view of Korea, Venezuela ... This is not available to us. And this is outrageous. As a result, people are getting stupid before our eyes. I call this "mass hypnosis", they control the media space, block access to alternative information.

• “I don’t know anything about Bolivia until I watch RT”: Oliver Stone in an interview with Rafael Correa

- Oliver, do you see any alternative, do you have any hope for a revival of real American politics and democracy?

- I can only say as a person who has seen life that so many Americans are unhappy with the current situation. There is no doubt about that. But to say whether we can create a political organization that would have the power and support of the electorate ... It’s not at all easy in a country with such an electoral system in which you are just an elector of a certain state, but of all these states, say , 52.

And, for example, the state of Wyoming, in which almost no one lives, is represented by two senators. And New York State is represented by two senators. In other words, by the time they count the votes, your voice no longer matters. ... they pump so much money into politics! And my voice, my opinion can hardly change anything. It seems that there is some unspoken agreement.

With the help of money they buy media, with the help of money they buy candidates. Now US candidates must raise billions of dollars to be taken seriously. But it does not work! There is a lot of corruption in America, much more than in any other country in the world. They talk about Russia as a corrupt country, but I believe that the US has powerful corruption. Just unbelieveble. And this is real "mass hypnosis." You can tell people that we have democracy, but in fact money rules everything. Therefore, it is not clear where to start ... where to start? How is history repeated? And the story really repeats itself.

All empires are crumbling. ... We are the empire of evil. What Reagan once said about Russia is quite applicable to the United States today. Then I thought: "The same thing that happened with the Soviet Union will happen with the USA." And I think this will happen soon. Not as fast as in the case of Russia, but something will happen for sure, because we have reached the limit, we have a devastating effect on the history of mankind.

I must say with regret (because I love my country!) That we have become a force of evil. We have become the power of evil for people, for those who want reforms, for those who seek to change things. For people! For ordinary people! And nothing comes of it. I know that will fail. This will return to us as a boomerang. There is a certain historical force in the world. And if my personal opinion does not matter, if people can’t do anything, then at least there is a kind of “moral arc of the Universe,” as Martin Luther King once said.

See the full version of the interview on the RTD website.