- Today you are leading your foundation, the Yaroslavl branch of the Russian Military Historical Society. At the same time, represent the Serbian television channel in Russia. And even participated in the last municipal campaign in the Yaroslavl region. Which of these areas is important for you today?

- In general, let it not surprise you why I, a politician at the regional level, are reasoning today, including on international issues. I am a political multi-stationer. Headed the district, headed the city. Then he became the governor - 16 years. Then 11 years - in the Russian parliament. Moreover, he just worked in the international committee in parliament, dealt with issues related to our compatriots outside of Russia.

- You were a member of the Democratic Choice of Russia party, supported Yegor Gaidar at the time. It is generally accepted in us that a liberal is necessarily a Westerner. And you support such, in general, patriotic initiatives - both in Serbia and Ukraine. Is there no contradiction here?

“No, liberal values ​​are normal values.” This is freedom, independence, this is the self-determination of peoples. And the origins of patriotism - they are very important for our new Russia. Today we must prove to the West that we are changing, we are different. That we are not a militant nation that is trying to seize foreign territories. Absolutely not. We, like the West, want peaceful cooperation. But we are underdeveloped in this regard.

“Soft power” is the weakest link in our foreign policy. Absolutely passive activity. They judge us, as they judged before - Ivan, who do not remember kinship. Many of our burials abroad are abandoned, for some reason we do not put them in order. But any propaganda, any calls for patriotism are absolutely meaningless. A well-restored burial abroad speaks in our favor more than any patriotic speech from a high rostrum - even the State Duma, even the Federation Council. For more than 11 years now, in Serbia, I have been engaged in the restoration of the Belgrade necropolis. This is the burial place of our emigration and soldiers of the First World War. I deal with the same topic in Western Ukraine.

- Tell us about your new position - what channel do you represent in Russia?

- Three years ago I met a young Serbian family. They are Russophiles, they love very much, they understand Russia. They have their own school. They asked me to help them get the right to teach Russian abroad - in order to open a Russian language class at school. For more than a year we went through the courts in Russia, we got this right. They opened the first two classes. And on September 1 of this year, a separate center for studying the Russian language was opened. And so they suggested creating the Istok-1 channel, which would work 80% on Russian content. Already received a license for 10 years. I was offered to become an official representative of this channel in Russia. My task is to get in touch with all our television channels, including RT.

CNN sharply launched propaganda: they say, Putin’s channel appeared in Serbia. The fact is that for ten years absolutely nothing Russian has appeared in Serbia: no newspapers, no magazines, no television, no radio. Only CNN, the dictates of American, pro-Western television channels.

- Why didn’t anything pro-Russian appear in the Balkans?

- But this surprises me - why we do not understand that we need to informally carry our way of life there.

- In general, do you watch Russian TV channels in Serbia?

- Yes, they are not there. There Channel One is shown - in hotels. Those who have access to satellite broadcasting can watch Russian channels. But, in droves, no.

- Do many people speak Russian?

- Well, Russian, in any case, they understand. And, judging by opinion polls, a large number of Serbs want to learn Russian.

- What media are the main ones in Serbia, the Balkans as a whole?

- All western. I was once at one of the seminars - I went to ask. The theme was one: how to prove to Serbian youth that Russia is not a friend, but an enemy of Serbia and Serbian independence. And this ideology - it is clearly laid in the minds of the younger generation.

When in 2008 I came to Ukraine to search and put in order the military graves of the First World War, I saw how thousands of young people left for the USA, where they studied: why Russia is not a friend, but an enemy of Ukraine. But we didn’t do anything special either. Today in Serbia, young people respect Putin. Five years ago, I was with him at a military parade in Belgrade. There were billboards: “Putin is the best leader in the world,” “Serbia is Putin’s guard,” “Putin, save Serbia.” Can you imagine? The youth.

But with our passive attitude, we can lose them. Soft Power is a serious weapon that must be used for peaceful purposes. Serbia is in a difficult political situation. The West is constantly pushing and more actively began to put pressure on President Vucic, the main issue is the recognition of Kosovo. Vučić has elections next year. Therefore, of course, our task is to support the Serbs at least informationally.

“Little by little”

- I was surprised to learn that even after 2014 there are organizations that, with your participation, support our monuments and burial places in Western Ukraine. How do you manage to work now?

“ Well, working harder now.” Until 2014, the Galician Rus scout federation was engaged in historical areas, including the search for burials. And after the Maidan, the nationalists filed a lawsuit to close the "Galician Rus." The statement said that the organization had been working with a Russian senator for seven years, who supposedly brought destructive Soviet ideology to the territory of Western Ukraine for all these seven years. But, to the credit of the court, he did not accept this statement.

And after that they allowed me to deal with the burial places of the Second World War in Lviv. There is a huge memorial “Hill of Glory”, where more than a thousand of our soldiers of World War II are buried. There are graves of both the First World War and the monument - we put it in order. There is the grave and memorial of the tanker, Hero of the Soviet Union Marchenko, who was the first to break into Lviv during the liberation of the city. On the occasion of the 70th anniversary of the Victory, the memorial “Mourning Mother” was put in order. The money was given to me by Anatoly Chubais. I remembered that he was born in Lviv, called ... The only thing is that the nationalists demanded to remove the word "socialist" (was the "socialist homeland") - in order to comply with the law on decommunization. Most of all, the Germans deal with the topic of burials abroad. They have a German People's Union for this. In our country, little by little everyone is doing this: the Ministry of Culture, the army, consulates, embassies. But there is no common system.

- In Ukraine, you studied in Russian schools. How are things now?

- Yes, I saw how the Russian language is being washed out of schools, how nationalist youth groups are being organized. He applied to the Russkiy Mir Foundation and won a grant. And for four years he brought teachers from Western Ukraine to the Yaroslavl Pedagogical University. And after the Maidan I was refused a grant. I asked why. They answered me: "So you see, we have what kind of relations with Ukraine." I say: what, is the same relationship with the Russian language? The whole world opens language centers, promotes its own language, its own way of life. And we don’t have such a policy at all.

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- The annexation of Crimea and the support of those who rebelled in the Donbass - how do you feel about this? How justified was it, or was it necessary to act more gently?

- I think that Crimea is absolutely justified. And from the support of Donbass it was necessary to abstain. And we will disentangle this story for a long time. Because there was a point of confrontation, which the West really needs and it will keep it endlessly.

“Do you not believe in a quick settlement?”

- I do not believe. Because for the West it is a mechanism of pressure on us.

“But in Ukraine it is we who are accused of supporting the conflict.”

- Well, that is their right.

"Comrade suffered"

- We will return to Yaroslavl. You at one time, as a senator from the Yaroslavl region, criticized Mayor Yevgeny Urlashov for the lack of constructive dialogue with the regional government. He had such a bright position, as if independent, right?

- No, I didn’t particularly criticize him. I understood that he was preparing himself a good electoral base. For three years he paid attention to all painful points of power. And when he went to the polls, I realized that he would win. I was invited to the Old Square (to the Presidential Administration. - RT ). I told them that I would not support Yakushev (a Yaroslavl businessman and politician, a member of United Russia, a candidate for mayor of the Yaroslavl region in the elections of 2012. - RT ). Because Yakushev will lose. We were friends with his families, went on vacation together, spent holidays together. When he came to consult with me, I say: Yakov Semyonovich, you have order in your business, why are you getting into this? No, he says, they promise me that they will use the administrative resource. Well, Urlashov won, but turned out to be a weak person. Fell under the influence of Moscow party structures. He was guaranteed almost carte blanche there - independence and protection. And as a result, the comrade suffered.

- Was the case against him political or not, in your opinion?

- Well, it was connected with the elections - they raised money. Therefore, companies tried to "tilt", apparently.

- And where is the line between a truly independent position and a non-constructive one? When a person is already exchanging some of his critical attitude for some political views.

- Power is a drug. When people fall into the seat of power, not everyone succeeds in concentrating their main goals and understanding that you have undertaken a very difficult task. In which work takes 80% of the time, and 20% are political aspirations. So he did not understand this. He thought that going to bars and restaurants, communicating with the Moscow political party - this is the norm of entering the political life of Russia. And this ruined him. When he began to broadcast from the rostrum that he was the next governor and so on ... Actually, politics is the art of playing long. It is necessary to build the logic of your behavior many steps forward.

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About charismatic leaders

- In the 90s, many governors were charismatic leaders. Technocrats are coming. It is believed that they should not deal with politics, but with economic issues. How justified is this?

- Until 2000, there was a Union of Governors. We constantly talked, adopted each other's experience. There were associations of economic development - what has now become embassies. These associations were headed by governors on an unfettered basis. For example, I headed the association for seven years, which included Moscow and the eight regions around it. My colleagues and I were members of the government, we attended every meeting, had the opportunity to ask questions directly to the prime minister. Now where are the governors talking? They do not know each other. Four times a year they gather at the State Council, sometimes at some other local meetings. A completely isolated lifestyle. The vertical of power today so suppresses regional life that, in fact, they are often just blind performers.

- A well-known oppositionist Boris Nemtsov worked in your regional Duma. Did you communicate

- Communicated, of course. When were the governors. We seemed to be competing even with Nizhny Novgorod.

- Did you communicate when Nemtsov was in Yaroslavl?

- Yes. Well, he was quite diplomatic. He said: "Communication with me will only hurt you, let's be careful somehow." He understood everything correctly, he talked about things that lay on the surface, and he clearly raised all these corrupt ties. This did not like (some in power. - RT ), of course.

- And if you look in general at how politics is changing. In recent years, and not only in Russia, it has become a kind of show where it is enough to play an open, friendly guy ... You can recall both Ukraine and the USA.

- Today the opportunity to receive any information is so open, to do any stuffing! Therefore, naturally, many politicians turn into showmen.

About "Putinism"

- You spoke for Putin’s third term. It was so?

- Yes, I do not see anyone among other politicians who could replace him.

- That is, he should remain in politics even after the expiration of the presidential term?

- I think so. Because I do not see anyone absolutely. As I do not see in the Yaroslavl local politics, young people who are able to say something politically. Absolutely empty field, extinct. So it is at the federal level.

I appreciate Putin for the fact that in 2000 he managed to understand that the Yugoslav events showed our complete helplessness. And he said at a meeting of donor governors (there were more than 20 then): guys, defense must be raised, otherwise we will be crushed.

And by 2014, we realized that she had risen to a fairly convincing level. Well, the fact that we have a weak government that cannot make our economy understandable and necessary for the people is amazing. Regions today are in a vertical of financial pressure. With such financial resources, with such an overflow of funds, they have no money.

Now the expression "Putinism" has appeared. Why is the West afraid of “Putinism”. And what is “Putinism”? What is the West afraid of? He is afraid that the ideology of the Soviet Union will come back to life. In the last century, the only country in the world managed to change the world order three times: in 1917, in the 45th and in the 91st. This is what the West is afraid of. That Russia will come to such an ideological impact on the Western world.

On reconciliation with the past

- You have published the book “Shot by Yaroslavl”, which is dedicated to the July uprising of 1918. It was led by Boris Savinkov. France supported it at one time, even promised to send troops, but did not send it. There was a resonant situation in St. Petersburg when the RVIO hung up a sign in honor of Karl Mannerheim. Moreover, Mannerheim is one of the leaders of the blockade of Leningrad. Is it reconciliation with the past? Is it even possible?

“A nation heals time.” There can be no precocity in such matters. Just ideologically, mentally perceive the image of the world of the last century - for us it was a fairly hostile topic. The same story of the First World War - it was not actually in our textbooks.

When I started to study the Belgrade necropolis in 2008, I was also asked questions: are these white officers, and you are restoring their graves? But why did these white officers go abroad? Because they were faithful to the oath they had made to the king. They were faithful to the military oath. Isn't that what we should teach our soldiers today?

I give a lot of lectures. In a military school in Moscow, a cadet asks me a question: what, Anatoly Ivanovich, if I, according to the command of the Motherland, fulfill my military duty abroad tomorrow, I will die, my grave will also grow in grass and be forgotten? I had nothing to tell him. Because we take this lightly so far. For a Westerner, as Ivanov we were, not remembering kinship, we remain that way.