La Courneuve (AFP)

High Commissioner Jean-Paul Delevoye on Saturday defended the government's pension reform plan against CGT boss Philippe Martinez, during a tense debate at the Fête de l'Humanité.

One of the moderators of the discussion, the editorial director of L'Humanité Patrick Apel-Muller, had several times to temper the invectives and boos of some of the hundreds of people in the audience, the day after a strike against the reform project very followed at the RATP.

"It is the prime minister who agrees to debate with the CGT," said Philippe Martinez. But, he has attacked, "not one of the 132 pages of your report (which serves as a basis for the reform of the government, Ed) does not resume our proposals."

"We have 42 pension plans, which raises a problem of equity," said Delevoye. "We have immediately opted for the wealth of this country, the distribution", but by defining the "same rules for all, the same rate of contribution, for the same career, retirement is the same", a- he added.

"Our fellow citizens consider the current system unfair, illegible, we are working on a system in which retirement will reflect the work," said the High Commissioner.

Philippe Martinez lamented the point system desired by the government. "The president said + a euro contributed, a euro paid +, they modified, a euro contribution will give a point.But who will define the value of the point? Will it not be able to decline in the name, for example, of the reduction of deficits? "

Jean-Paul Delevoye replied: "We proposed to index the point on wages, mechanically its value can not decline." But, he agreed, "what poses a potential problem is trust, which will determine the value of the point - it is the social partners".

"With such governance, on the injunction of markets, the logic of austerity, the value of the point will decline," worried Mr. Martinez.

"Only two things count: at what age can I leave, and with how much, do not be confused with the pivoting, equilibrium age ... that is, those who look only in terms of expenses" , he insisted.

The value and governance of the point will be one of the key points of citizen consultations launched by the government between September and December.

While the two men agreed on the need to solve the problem of careers more and more clashed and precarious, Mr. Delevoye felt that what he advocated "will redistribute careers ascending, long, precarious".

© 2019 AFP