The fact that the press spokesman for a parliamentary group meets a journalist in a bar to have an open and confidential conversation is everyday life in Berlin's government district.

But the dinner for which Christian Lüth, the then spokesman for the AfD parliamentary group, and the right-wing YouTuber Lisa Licentia will meet on February 23, 2020 in the Newton Bar in Berlin-Mitte, is anything but ordinary.

We can still shoot the [migrants] afterwards.

That's not an issue at all.

Or gas, or whatever you want.

Christian Lüth as press spokesman for the AfD parliamentary group

On the one hand, because Lüth and Licentia are by no means unobserved: In fact, a team of journalists from the station ProSieben is there with hidden cameras.

And secondly, because Lüth reveals highly disturbing attitudes in the supposedly unheard-of conversation.

For example, he says: "The worse Germany is, the better it is for the AfD. Of course, that sucks, for our children too. (...) But that will probably keep us going."

The recordings made by ProSieben will be broadcast on Monday evening in the documentary

ProSieben special: German, right, radical


In the film, for legal reasons, Lüth is only referred to as a "high AfD functionary" and not named.

But ZEIT ONLINE was able to clearly identify him as Lisa Licentia's interlocutor - with the help of a data leak and several conversations with informants.

Because of Lüth's outstanding position in the party at the time of the meeting in the bar and because of the special public interest associated with it, ZEIT ONLINE decided to make his name public.

The recording was made when Lüth was still the spokesman for the AfD parliamentary group

Lüth has worked for the party in a senior position since the Alternative for Germany (AfD) was founded seven years ago, first as party spokesman, later as spokesman for the parliamentary group.

He is considered a close confidante of the honorary party chairman Alexander Gauland.

In the spring of this year Lüth was released on account of serious allegations, among other things because he had described himself as a "fascist".

To date, the AfD has not dismissed him, he is only on leave.

The recordings from the Newton Bar in Berlin-Mitte were made two months before his release, when Christian Lüth officially spoke for the AfD parliamentary group in the Bundestag.

The appointment between Licentia and Lüth came about after the AfD politician had initially written to the right-wing influencer several times on Twitter.

It is their first meeting in the real world.

What Lüth doesn't know: Licentia wants to get out of the right-wing scene and is therefore in contact with the ProSieben team around reporter Thilo Mischke.

The journalists decide to film the appointment with hidden cameras in order to be able to document what Lüth really thinks - and what he says when he thinks he is among like-minded people.

February 23, when the meeting takes place, is the evening of the Hamburg election, which did not go well for the AfD.

At first, Lüth sounds like any party official: "First of all, it's about maintaining the party. The AfD is important," he says, for example.

Everything in the party is geared towards being successful, he doesn't care about the country at first.