Scientific coordinator of the SIRIUS project - Scientific International Research in Unique Terrestrial Station ("International scientific research at a unique ground station"), Head of the Laboratory of Immune System Physiology, Department of Experimental Physiology, Institute of Biomedical Problems (IBMP), Russian Academy of Sciences Sergey Ponomarev.
- What is the uniqueness of the SIRIUS project?
- This is a fairly large series of international isolation experiments that are being carried out at IBMP.
It is unique in that it simulates a flight to the moon.
And in this flight, advanced means and technologies of virtual reality are used, which will further help in training, in preparation for a real flight.
- At what stages of the experiment are virtual reality technologies used?
- During the landing on the moon.
Special tools will also be used to simulate the activities of the crew to control the rover on the lunar surface.
- Weren't there any rovers in the experiments of the SIRIUS project before?
- Rovers were, but they are being completed.
A completely new software is being developed for them in our country.
The research is very interesting from the point of view of practical science and from the point of view of fundamental psychology.
Psychologists are looking at how the simulated space flight conditions affect the operator's performance.
- What is the duration of the experiments of the SIRIUS project?
- The first isolation training lasted for a month.
The second is already more serious - four months.
An eight-month isolation is to begin in November.
And then, by agreement with our international partners, there should be a one-year mission.
Research ground experimental complex of the Institute of Biomedical Problems of the Russian Academy of Sciences
© IBMP
- Why is it difficult to stay in an enclosed space for a long time?
- When a person is in a confined space, when there is no opportunity to communicate with relatives, when there are conditions of deprivation associated with communication, with isolation from the world, when a person does not receive news information on time, does not know what is happening, cannot go out to breathe fresh air, does not know whether it is day or night, all rhythms begin to go astray, he is constantly in the same environment - all this has a very negative effect on the psyche.
Our program includes over 70 experiments from the USA and different countries.
This is not only psychology, it is experiments in the field of physiology, immunology, biochemistry, microbiology.
The task of our project is to comprehensively study the interaction of a person with the environment, with the environment of a closed space.
A unique environment, which will be approximately the same on a spaceship.
Do women adapt to isolation as well as men?
- I cannot say that women adapt worse.
On the contrary, sometimes they do everything much more thoroughly than men.
Although we still do not have a lot of statistics, the number of crew members totals dozens of people.
But it cannot be said that there is any glaring difference between men and women.
- What is your emotional interaction with the team?
- The researchers are worried, maybe even more than the crew themselves.
People in this project are very worried, trying to help.
- When testers come out of isolation, what do they say, what do they ask for first of all?
- Everything is different.
Communicating with family, friends, loved ones is common for everyone.
Someone wants to go fishing, someone wants to go to a restaurant and eat a good normal steak.
- How is the food for the testers organized?
- These are mainly freeze-dried products that are loaded in advance.
And these are far from restaurant conditions, dry rations.
Participants are not allowed to eat, for example, fresh fruits and vegetables, except what is produced in the greenhouse.
If we are talking about a flight to the Moon, to Mars, then everyone understands that there will be no supply of fresh vegetables.
They eat what the astronauts eat.
And the food in the tubes is, of course, mostly worse than the same freshly cooked steak.
- What experiments of the project do you remember the most?
- You know, each experiment is unique in its own way.
This is a definite building block on the way to the development of the planets of the solar system.
I remember the experiments in which I was directly involved as an organizer.
Being a responsible executor, a leader, you start to worry about the success of this project, emotionally you get involved much more.
Tester of experiments "Dry Immersion" and SIRIUS-19. Anastasia Stepanova, engineer of the Institute of Biomedical Problems of the Russian Academy of Sciences.
- Tell us about experiment SIRIUS-19. What is its difficulty?
“In the SIRIUS-19 experiment, we had an equal share of men and women.
And by age, we were all roughly in the same category.
Everyone was sick and sick with space.
The main thing for us was to complete the task perfectly, it was very motivated.
We need to work together.
You realize that if you have a fight with someone, you and this person will be together for 4 months.
It educates well, teaches us to understand each other, to be more tolerant.
Testers of the international project SIRIUS
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© sirius.research
- Experts can exit the experiment at any time. Have you ever had such a thought?
- During the experiment, I never thought about it, in any case.
On the contrary, it was interesting how all the studies would go and how I perceive myself.
- Can you somehow compare your isolation and quarantine due to the COVID-19 pandemic?
- I was often asked when the quarantine began.
I replied that I was sitting in a metal barrel without windows, without portholes.
When people are in quarantine, they have the Internet, food delivery.
You can go out to take out the trash or take a walk with the dog, feel the sunlight, the wind.
We missed it.
- Can your experiment be compared with the 1967 study, according to which the book "A Year in a Starship" was written?
- Was 58 m² where they sat?
- With a greenhouse.
- And without a greenhouse?
- Without a greenhouse 12 m².
- Yes, the experiment "Year in a Starship" was extreme, very difficult.
It was much easier for us.
A large station, a volume where you can move around, unwind a little, be alone.
And there three men were sitting on 12 m².
Then a greenhouse was added to them, the area increased, but nevertheless it is very difficult.
And they sat there for a year, and we only four months.
- How ready is the average person to fly to Mars?
- If you have not prepared in any way, then it will be very risky.
The flight will take about seven months.
And, in addition to physical activity and physiological changes in the body, psychology is a very important factor.
- For you, during the experiments, which aspect was more difficult, physiological or psychological?
- The first experiment was Mars 160, we spent three months in the desert in Utah.
Then they lived on a desert island in the Arctic.
What was difficult in the SIRIUS project?
I lacked variety in food.
Everything is sliding down to basic instincts.
You feel comfortable, warm, and then you want something else.
Delicious to eat.
I dreamed very much about the device, which is shown in sci-fi films, where you can order any dish.
Once, and it appears.
SIRIUS project participants can eat dry rations and what is produced in the greenhouse
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© sirius.research
- You also participated in a dry immersion experiment to study the body's reactions in zero gravity. For the first time, there were women in immersion baths ...
- Yes, I was surprised that in such a long history of experiments on dry immersion, we had only male testers.
It is clear that if we explore Mars, then both men and women will fly there.
And, of course, I wanted to finally start exploring how the female body changes in microgravity.
This was the main motivator.
Plus, check myself, because I dream of getting into space.
- Is there enough data on psychology and human physiology in space, including on the basis of isolation experiments, to fly to Mars in the near future?
- There is enough data on physiology and psychology in a confined space, in extreme conditions.
But on Mars, other moments arise.
This is practically the absence of a magnetic field and radiation.
With radiation, the problem can be solved, but with a reduced magnetic field ... Here scientists have questions about how this will affect a person.
- Is there a program for a manned flight to Mars in 2035? Is it doable?
- With very ambitious plans and the financial, time and resource situation, like Elon Musk's, I think it is possible.
So that the first crew flew to Mars and not be there all the time.
I flew in, studied and went back to Earth.
So yes it is possible.
- What effects did you experience from weightlessness?
- I was very surprised how quickly the body adapts to new conditions, begins to change.
Already in the first day, literally in a few hours, I began to understand that something was happening.
For example, I lost about two liters of liquid, on the second day I grew by one and a half centimeters.
But she slept well, her appetite was generally excellent.
Of course, I had to learn how to handle the toilet.
There were such funny and at the same time difficult moments, but we coped.
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- It is known about dry immersion baths that they can cause back pain and other unpleasant sensations. Did you have something similar?
- Actually, it is surprising that all the female testers did not have this common back pain syndrome.
And we think about what it is connected with.
Everyone reacted differently.
But none of us had back pain.
On the contrary, my legs are as rested as ever.
If you just lie in this bath for an hour or two, this is an amazing anti-stress.
Both psychological and physical.
You just fall asleep and feel reborn.
Elena Tomilovskaya, Head of the Laboratory of Gravitational Physiology of the Sensorimotor System, Head of the Department of Sensorimotor Physiology and Prevention of the Institute of Biological and Biological Prophylaxis, Russian Academy of Sciences
- You are watching the testers. Is it more difficult for them psychologically or physiologically? Or is it more dependent on the person?
- In experiments with an immersion bath, these are primarily physiological difficulties.
Unlike isolation experiments, a person is all the time with other people, the duty team is always nearby, he has a telephone, the Internet.
From the point of view of psychology, he is not very isolated from society.
But from the point of view of physiology, unusual things happen, for which the body is not ready.
Physically challenging first three days.
There may be problems with the gastrointestinal tract, back problems.
You need to go through, to adapt to this.
As scientists note, in experiments with an immersion bath, the testers first of all have physiological difficulties.
© Oleg Voloshin / IBMP
- How close are the conditions of immersion experiments to the real conditions of space flight?
- Naturally, this is not a complete reproduction of the conditions of weightlessness, the conditions of space flight.
The main factor that we reproduce here is the lack of support.
In zero gravity, a person does not lean on anything, soars in the air.
And here it is freely suspended in water.
Of course, the water presses on him from all sides, while he has no support.
We found out that it is the elimination of the support that triggers a lot of negative effects that we see after space flights in the motor and other systems of the body.
Moreover, all changes are certainly reversible.
We have not yet seen a single parameter that changes and does not return after the end of the immersion.