Two hundred-year-old clubs that saw the light of day in

1895 and 1902

, two stadiums with a deep football legend and dozens of players who have marked the history of the ball.

And never, never ever, have their shirts crossed on a pitch.

For this reason, to understand what it could mean if

Flamengo and Real Madrid

were to face each other in the

Club World Cup final

this Saturday, you have to go to the people who have experienced firsthand the pressure and glory of the



Santiago Bernabéu


Savio Bortolini

(Vila Velha, 1974) is one of the five players to have worn both kits.

He, Evaristo, Ricardo Rocha, Zé Roberto and Vinicius


There's no more.

The left-hander, who won a Brasileirao with 'Fla' and a League and three Champions League in white, attends


in Morocco, where he attends, of course, a historic event for Brazilian football.

What similarities do you find between Flamengo and Madrid? I always say that I had the opportunity to play for two huge clubs.

Very big.

When Madrid signed me, I thought I knew a little about what the club was, but when I arrived I realized that what I knew was very little.

From Brazil to Madrid it looked huge, but when it wasn't huge, it was much more.

I came from Flamengo, from magical fans, from impressive pressure... And I think that helped me get used to the level of pressure in Madrid.

It is a source of pride for me, because I was able to play in two teams that demand a lot.

I have seen, both at Flamengo and at Madrid, great footballers who did not manage to make a career at both clubs for many reasons: football, adaptation and of course the pressure demanded by those two teams.

Is Flamengo the biggest in Brazil? (Laughter) The rest of the teams are going to kill me... Flamengo is very big.

Sao Paulo, Palmeiras or Corinthians are too, but Flamengo is different.

Their fans are crazy, we are talking about how they easily put 60,000 people in the Maracana in a simple game.

I played there for 11 years, since I was 13, I grew up there and every day that passed I saw more, felt more... It's a very important team and in recent years it has won a lot, Libertadores, Brasileirao... It also has the Maracana , which is not from Flamengo but as if it were.

It's mythological.

A unique connection. Regarding the Club World Cup, there is a small obsession in Flamengo and its fans.

Here in Europe this tournament is not given so much importance, but in Brazil and Argentina it does mean a lot. A lot.

It is something very important for the teams and especially for the South American footballers.

The Copa Libertadores is important, of course, but the World Cup is unique.

I always remember the 1998 Mundialito that I played with Madrid against Vasco da Gama, the one with Raúl's goal.

I remember that we really wanted to win, and we did win, but I particularly wanted a lot more than the others, I felt it more.

He was Brazilian and had seen how in 1981 my idol Zico beat Liverpool with Flamengo in the Intercontinental.

After that he had an obsession with playing and winning the Club World Cup.

For us, Brazilians and South Americans, it is something very important, an obsession.

Do you notice in the fans and in the South American soccer players a feeling of rage against European soccer?

To show that they can compete and beat them?

The truth is that in recent years Europe has won all the Club World Cup titles.

South American soccer grew in the 80s and 90s, there was a great balance with the Europeans in the tournament, but after that the South Americans won very few.

There is a bit of that, wanting to change and improve.

And the Club World Cup is there for that.

Is winning a Mundialito more than winning a Libertadores? I think that for the South Americans yes.

It is different from how you live in Europe.

There the Champions League is the most important thing, but there... The Libertadores is something incredible, but the Club World Cup surpasses it.

Speaking of the Flamengo squad.

Filipe Luis, David Luiz,

until recently Diego Alves... How important is it that Brazilian veterans return 'home' and not choose, for example, countries like Saudi Arabia?

This Tuesday, precisely, the team faces Al Hilal. In the last four years, Flamengo has woven a very high level of competition and achievements.

The Libertadores, the Brasileirao, being in the Club World Cup... Flamengo has gotten used to winning and playing finals in the main competitions.

The return of these players has been very important because, in addition to their quality, they have their experience of playing in great teams in Europe.

It has been a very important moment for the club and for Brazilian football.

How do you see what Vinicius is experiencing from the outside? First of all, I am going to be very clear: racist messages seem regrettable to me.

I am sad to see that these things continue to happen in the world of football.

That's one thing.

Afterwards, he is a boy who, in addition to his quality, his one-on-one and his football, I like how he is handling all this.

Despite being very young, he is a person who, for me, has a good mentality.

He is strong and continues to play his soccer.

And he has to continue playing, enjoying and leading Madrid.

From the outside, I don't understand what's going on.

He plays his football, it's his way of playing, he has joy, dribbling and nothing else.

He can't change his playstyle, no one can.

I don't see what causes it.

Is one against one a problem?

If the provocation is to haggle, I don't understand football anymore. Who would you support on Saturday? (Laughter) What a question, uh... It's been 16 years between Flamengo and Real Madrid.

I have a special affection for Madrid, I am a Madridista,

we achieved giant conquests and I had the incredible affection of the Bernabéu, and to this day I still wonder what I did to deserve so much affection.

And Flamengo is my home, where I was born and raised and I have a lot of identification with them.

Hopefully we will have the great game, which together with the one in 1981, which was very special, will be the great game in the history of Flamengo.

According to the criteria of The Trust Project

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