“Disorder and ignorance”: Pakhnotskaya about the doping scandal in Chuvashia, the disqualified trainer and threats

"Investigation in Chuvashia was conducted since July 2007"

- Russian sport has recently been shaken by a loud doping scandal in Chuvashia. How much was monitored for violators?

- It is not entirely correct to say that we just sat and watched. Conducted analytical activities. Investigation department of RUSADA left for the place about 15 times. The first violation was recorded back in July 2017. At that time, a prohibited method for a minor - infusion, that is, intravenous injection of certain drugs with a volume of more than 100 ml over 12 hours, was used. The anti-doping rules in this case were violated by both the athlete and the person who used this method against him.

- What happened next?

“Since there are two articles for the staff and athletes in the criminal code of the Russian Federation at once, RUSADA appealed to law enforcement agencies. But for some reason we waited for a response for more than three months. As a result, the case was not opened due to the lack of corpus delicti.

We achieved reactions only when we turned to one of the initiators of the two mentioned laws on criminal liability for anti-doping rule violation - State Duma deputy Dmitry Svishchev. After that, we were told that at the time when everyone was introduced to the relevant amendments to the Criminal Code, this employee was on leave. Based on this, the criminal case was discontinued, but now it cannot be resumed, since the statute of limitations has passed, although we interviewed more than 150 people, a large-scale evidence base was obtained.

- But at the moment, investigations are going on in relation to 33 athletes?

- Right. All of them are suspected of performing the prohibited method of intravenous infusion. In the near future, the total amount will increase to 60.

- When will they be prosecuted?

- In the coming days. This occurs at the moment when the athlete receives a formal notice, and he is informed not only by letter. As for specific names, we do not call them until sanctions are imposed. Athletes will have the opportunity to present their position, which will be considered by the relevant division of RUSADA. Then the case will be heard in the first instance - the disciplinary-anti-doping committee.

- According to media reports, half of those accused of anti-doping rule violations are minors.

- About 30%. But at the time when the investigation began, there were more minors.

- Were you surprised that so many people were involved in the process?

- Of course, in recent years we have talked a lot about the problem of doping in sport and have done even more. As a result, this topic is being discussed not only in a narrow audience, but also in social and political media. It seemed that you just need to tighten the knowledge where they are lacking. RUSADA provides all the possibilities for this. Agency employees regularly travel to the regions, we cooperate with universities, a free online course is published on the site.

- Is it possible to talk about the global doping problem in the republic?

- I do not think that this is a system. Rather, it is disorder, irresponsibility and ignorance.

- At the same time, the head of Chuvashia, Mikhail Ignatiev, called the information about the doping scandal "fake news" ...

- So, the person is not aware of what is happening. Perhaps the first reaction Ignatieff can be called emotional. In turn, we never voice any suspicions until we get iron evidence. Therefore, the media sometimes give some information before RUSADA. I think the head of Chuvashia should get acquainted with the materials provided.

- Journalist Hajo Zeppelt after the incident has already written that the doping culture in Russia has not changed. What can you answer him?

- This is a superficial glance. Zeppelt has the right to comment, because information about the doping scandal in Chuvashia appeared in the public domain. But again, it should be noted that the investigations department of RUSADA is working at full capacity, and we see the results in practice, not in words. The second point: several times a year I meet with representatives of sports federations, regional ministries of sports and the athletes themselves. And I can say that there has been tremendous progress. If earlier there was rejection towards us, then now people are ready to cooperate and work.

“The main problem of ARAF is the coaching staff”

- Another high-profile scandal was the discovery of lifelongly disqualified coach Vladimir Kazarin at the Russian training camp for athletes in Kyrgyzstan. How did you manage to identify this violation?

“It was also a long siege.” The fact is that the article for cooperation with disqualified coaches has its own characteristics. After the first violation, the athlete receives a warning. Repeated punishment by disqualification. In this case we are talking about professional cooperation with a specialist, the process of working together, and not about visits to a restaurant or a friendly meeting. And we must have evidence.

- How long have you been following Kazarin’s activities?

- In Kyrgyzstan, training with the participation of Kazarin took place in a fairly desert area, and it was difficult to go unnoticed there. Employees of RUSADA made several visits and obtained video evidence of the cooperation of seven athletes with a specialist. At the same time, the runner’s case, Artem Denmukhametov, was transferred to the independent body of the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) for monitoring the observance of the Athletics Integrity Unit (AIU) anti-doping rules. Another athlete at that time was already disqualified for passing a positive test. Finally, the case against four athletes was initiated, as they were repeatedly caught at work with Vladimir. Last time they were notified about the violation.

- Russian athletes continue to fall for doping. Over the year, nearly 30 people were disqualified. This is indicative of not the highest quality work of ARA?

- It is not entirely correct to evaluate the work of the federation from the outside. It's a difficult question. In my opinion, the main problem of ARAF at the moment lies in the coaching staff, experienced professionals who have been practicing for many years. They began to work when there was no such strong anti-doping system either in Russia or in the world. Such coaches, by virtue of age, are hard to change their worldview, and they continue to move along the beaten track. But I also meet sensible, sensible people with the right values ​​and approach.

- Consequently, the main problem in the world?

- Unfortunately, some, regardless of age, allow themselves to use fraudulent methods. But much more a group of ignorant people who still do not know the rules. The banal situation - athletes, having caught a cold, are too lazy to check in the free mobile application, this or that medicine is prohibited.

- You said earlier that you sometimes did not publicly announce investigations until the evidence was made public. Are there any ongoing investigations?

- In RUSADA, this process never stops. There is no such thing that the agency staff are just sitting still and waiting for some kind of signal. It should be understood that the composition of RUSADA has been updated by 95% compared with the previous period, and all employees are ideological and passionate people. We believe that the situation can be changed. Yes, and "clean" athletes are much more than "dirty." Our task is to ensure that bona fide athletes have the opportunity to compete fairly.

“Don't you remember how the previous heads of RUSADA finished?”

- Do you lose heart when you see that athletes continue to break the rules, for example, they still work with specialists like Kazarin?

- No, especially on this issue RUSADA cooperates with the Ministry of Sport. Now, before awarding a rank to an athlete, we are asked for information about his doping history, so that violators do not have the opportunity to be marked at this level.

- Sometimes it seems that RUSADA is lonely in its struggle. Do you feel support from the Russian sports federations?

- We also sometimes think so ... ( laughs ) On the one hand, this is a philosophical question, because the agency’s task in the first place is to prevent the violation of anti-doping rules. If you failed to do this - fix the crime and punish the offender. Therefore, the activities of RUSADA cannot be pleasant to everyone. But we do not want to please everyone. Our goal, as I said, is to prevent and reason. After all, the problem of doping is primarily cultural. As soon as the cultural level rises, the number of violations will decrease.

- Recently you told how in a telephone conversation Vladimir Kireev, the former Minister of Sports of Mordovia, threatened you. What ended the story?

“It happened last spring, but recently it has become especially popular in the media.” Kireev called me when we demanded that the Mordovian walkers clearly indicate their location so as not to violate the rules of the ADAMS system. Moreover, Kireev called my work number, and at that moment an expert of WADA and colleagues from the investigations department was in my office next to me.

- What did he tell you?

- Something like the following: “Don't you remember how the previous heads of RUSADA finished?”. All this was said in a semi-humorous manner, but I realized that the man had somewhat overestimated his significance.

- Did apologies come from him?

- A few days later we had a meeting at the Ministry of Sport on completely different issues, and there he apologized. This was preceded by a tough conversation between Kireev and the leader of RUSAD, Yuri Ganus.