China News Agency, Beijing, February 8th, title: Zheng Yongnian recalls his best friend Zhu Yunhan: We are exploring and going further

  Author Yang Chengchen Chen Jianxin

  On February 5, Zhu Yunhan, a famous scholar and professor of Political Science Department of National Taiwan University, passed away at home at the age of 67.

  As Zhu Yunhan's long-time friend and academic partner, Zheng Yongnian, dean of the Qianhai Institute of International Affairs at the Chinese University of Hong Kong (Shenzhen), and chairman of the Academic Committee of the Public Policy Research Institute of South China University of Technology, was shocked by the "quiet departure" of his best friend, and bluntly said "the end of grief" Yu, a thousand thoughts overnight."

In his memorial article, he wrote that there is no long pavilion and ancient road in the real farewell...some people will stay in yesterday forever.

  In an exclusive interview with China News Agency's "East and West Questions", Zheng Yongnian recalled that a group of scholars of his generation who studied in the West in the 1980s and returned to the Chinese society in the 1990s to continue to engage in Chinese studies, shuttled between East and West. Common experiences and the formation of scholarly thought.

  He particularly emphasized Zhu Yunhan's unique perspective on East Asian and Chinese politics in Taiwan.

It is a pity that the old friend passed away suddenly.

If he hadn't left so early, "he would have something bigger."

Video: Zhu Yunhan, a well-known political scholar in Taiwan, died at the age of 67

Source: China News Network

The interview transcript is summarized as follows:

China News Agency reporter: Professor Zhu Yunhan has studied the Chinese model for a long time, and is one of the scholars with world influence on Chinese political research in East Asia.

You have maintained close academic exchanges with him for many years, how do you evaluate his academic contributions?

Zheng Yongnian:

I have been with Yunhan for decades. He did not study China at the beginning. He studied the West first, and then East Asia.

His comparative research is to look at China's development from a global perspective.

  The Chinese model must be compared with other models, so that we can understand what Western countries and other developing countries want to know, and have a world perspective (observation perspective).

Only by putting China on the world map can the study of the Chinese model be disseminated. It is impossible to see (the world) clearly only by looking at China or the United States.

Why is Zhu Yunhan not only influential in China, but also in the world?

He is based on a global perspective, which we scholars should learn from.

China News Service reporter: You mentioned in your recent article that Zhu Yunhan’s academic career has gone through three stages. First, he studied and compared Western politics and Asian politics, then he critically reflected on Western democracy and internal transformation, and finally he reflected on the foundations of the West. He called for the construction of an Asian social science system.

How did this change?

Zheng Yongnian:

In the early days, especially after returning to Taiwan, his research on the "third wave" of democratization was still influenced by Western values. East Asia, look at Taiwan.

In his early years, he did not do much research on mainland China.

  The second stage is the reflection on Western-style democracy.

He slowly observed what happened to Western-style democracy in Taiwan.

Many of his political and academic classmates began to reflect on Taiwan's Western-style democracy, as well as on East Asia as a whole.

  Since the 1990s, mainland China has risen rapidly. This is a question that everyone must answer.

I think that Professor Yun Han is also a mainstream figure in Western academic circles. He looks at the political deconstruction of Taiwan and the rise of mainland China. In fact, this is also a question that overseas scholars are thinking about.

So I classify his three stages as: look at East Asia from the west, then reflect on East Asia, then look at mainland China, and think about how mainland China rises.

China News Service reporter: Among scholars of your generation who study East Asia and China, is the similar stage change unique to Professor Zhu alone, or does it happen to all generations?

Zheng Yongnian:

Almost all of our generation studied in the West in the 1980s and 1990s (20th century), so there is a comparison.

Our thinking about academics is inseparable from the environment. For example, staying in the United States may be influenced by American ideology. Now the remaining (Chinese scholars) in American universities also look at mainland China, Taiwan, and China from a Western perspective. East Asia.

Whether it is ideology, cultural influence, or academic paradigm, if you stay in New York or London, you will still look at East Asia and China from the perspective of New York and London.

So why reflect on the West, many people have returned to their homeland, such as Yunhan returned to Taiwan, we returned to mainland China, and returned to East Asian society, there will be comparisons.

  Why did we say that fieldwork (field research) is very important in the past, and only through practice can we balance the original point of view.

After being educated in the West, why we can separate from Western propositions and form our own propositions has something to do with our personal experience.

For any scholar, the knowledge system behind him is inseparable from his environment.

I think Professor Yunhan also agrees.

China News Agency reporter: You just mentioned the term perspective and the social environment.

We have seen that after Professor Zhu returned to Taiwan, there is a big gap between Professor Zhu's research path and views on the Chinese model and the current situation in Taiwan society. What do you think?

Zheng Yongnian: For

scholars like Yun Han, sometimes the knowledge they pursue may not please both sides.

When he was doing research on the "third wave" of democratization, he was very popular in Taiwan.

When he wants to reflect on Taiwan, people have already regarded Western-style democracy as an ideology. If you criticize and reflect on it, there will be pressure.

Just like in Western classrooms, when you say it is difficult to criticize Western democracy, it becomes politically incorrect.

  Intellectual circles in mainland China also have different views on Professor Yun Han, some like it and some don't like it.

His research itself is to study how mainland China rises and what are the laws of development.

Whether he likes him or not is not his original intention. He is still objectively discussing the East Asian model and the Chinese model.

Professor Yunhan is a very down-to-earth person. As a social scientist, he starts from experience and practice instead of ideology and values.

I know him better, basically as a contemporary colleague.

China News Agency reporter: You just mentioned Professor Zhu's research on the Chinese model and his research on the independent path of modern Chinese society.

What do you think is his most important induction and discovery?

What are the inspirations for China studies in academia?

Zheng Yongnian:

The most important thing is that he provides a different perspective.

The second is that he conceptualized and theorized the experience of East Asia and China.

We understand the logic of the West, we also understand the logic of East Asia and China, we know how to connect, and we often play the role of bridge.

You see now, why many Chinese people do not believe Western scholars, it is because both sides sometimes talk to themselves.

There needs to be a bridge between China and the West, and between China and other countries. Only when we understand each other can we have a consensus.

China News Agency reporter: His most well-known book "Gao Si Zai Yun" in recent years was unexpectedly popular when it was published in mainland China. Now it seems to be "out of the circle". Why do you think this book is widely accepted in mainland China?

Zheng Yongnian:

He is one step ahead in this respect.

Because after the rise of China, we lack our own theories and concepts to explain this phenomenon, and Professor Yunhan provided Chinese scholars with a new perspective through the comparative method I just mentioned.

  But this book is still regrettable in my opinion, and there is still room for further exploration in the interpretation of the practical experience of China's development.

In fact, as far as I know, Professor Yunhan doesn't want people to only emphasize the viewpoints in his book. He hopes that his research and thinking methods will be accepted by more people.

He did not publish "Gao Si Zai Yun" for the sake of writing a bestseller, he was pursuing academic values.

China News Agency reporter: From "Gaosi in the Cloud" to the latest "The Fragmentation and Reintegration of Globalization" published in the past two years, in Professor Zhu's academic career, what new changes do you think have occurred in the flow of his academic thoughts?

Zheng Yongnian:

This is a natural process, not that he wants to change deliberately.

The third stage of Yunhan's academic career was formed based on the study of Chinese politics.

When Western scholars found that their methodology could not fully explain the take-off of the "Four Asian Tigers" and that the rise of mainland China was not in the same shape as the "Four Asian Tigers", Yun Han's research would naturally help the West understand and understand China direction.

  Because China is a big country, the West will be more disturbed by ideology when looking at China, and even think China is a threat.

The West has been dominating social science since modern times. It took them many years to accept the concept of so-called developmental states. How can we make them understand and accept the Chinese model?

I want to include what I did with Yunhan, that's this step.

Of course, what we have studied and seen are not the same.

Reporter from China News Agency: Have you ever had a collision of thoughts with him, or even a time of conflict?

Zheng Yongnian:

Of course.

Just like what Yun Han said in his book, "Wang Dao Thought", these are still the ideas of overseas New Confucianism.

New Confucianism is mainly in the field of philosophy, and Yun Han transfers these things to political science, sociology, and economics to explain, which is an extension of New Confucian thinking in social sciences. Of course, this kind of thinking is of great significance.

  I think directly from the realities of China's politics, economy, and society, and the "kingly way" is too abstract for me.

I think it is still necessary to use practical logic to figure it out.

Of course, we also have the same place, because New Confucianism also recognizes the influence of Western civilization on Chinese civilization. I look at the problem from the perspective of some mechanisms and systems.

So, (we) have arguments, but in many places they are complementary and mutually inspiring.

That's why we are also getting closer. We have written many things together, including articles related to the "Belt and Road Initiative", and held meetings together. Many things have been a very pleasant process.

Everyone's direction is the same, which is how to build a social science knowledge system based on Asian practical experience.

  "Orientalism" has only taken one step forward before, and Western theories cannot explain Eastern practice and do not conform to our reality. We still have to take the next step forward.

I think it is the most important thing for Yun Han to reach this step in the end.

China News Agency reporter: When did you meet Professor Zhu Yunhan?

Zheng Yongnian:

We have known each other since the 90s (20th century). We started academic exchanges in the mid-1990s and have been going on.

Originally, I had an idea to build a knowledge system based on Asian experience. Their team wanted to set up a political and economic school. We also set up a political and economic school in Hong Kong or Singapore. Everyone has the same goal and the same thinking.

We are the same way.

  In fact, what our group of people are doing is neither satisfied with the West nor "Orientalism". We emphasize that our identity (identity) is very important.

So it has been said that the past success of the "Four Asian Tigers" and the current success of mainland China have provided such a wealth of practical experience.

As Asian scholars, have we contributed to the social sciences of the world?

  I also told Yun Han that when discussing Japan and Taiwan, it is actually difficult to fully explain it with Western things.

If the entire knowledge system of the economic take-off of the "Four Asian Tigers" has been "digested" by the Western intellectual circles, then the rise of China, India and other larger economies cannot be "digested" by the Western intellectual circles.

Therefore, we hope to create our own knowledge system based on the critique of "Orientalism", not only deconstructing, but also constructing, which is the most important.

  So I feel very sorry, if Yun Han hadn't left so early, there would be more grand things behind him.

(over)

Respondent profile:

  Zheng Yongnian, Professor of Chinese University of Hong Kong (Shenzhen), Dean of Qianhai Institute of International Affairs, Editor-in-Chief of Springer-Nature ARPE Academic Journal (The Asian Review of Political Economy), Routledge Editor-in-chief of Routledge's China Policy Series and co-editor of World Scientific's Series on Contemporary China.

  Received Bachelor of Laws (1985), Master of Laws (1988) from Peking University, Master of Political Science (1992) and Ph.D. (1995) from Princeton University.

He has successively served as a lecturer at the Department of Politics and Administration of Peking University; a researcher and senior researcher at the East Asian Institute of the National University of Singapore; a professor and research director of the China Policy Institute at the University of Nottingham; a professor and director of the East Asian Institute at the National University of Singapore.

He used to be a research fellow of the Social Science Research Council and the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation.

Mainly engaged in international relations, foreign policy, Sino-US relations, China's internal transformation and its external relations.

In recent years, he has published and edited nearly a hundred books, including more than 10 English monographs.

Published dozens of academic papers in international academic journals.