CAIRO -
The head of the Egyptian (liberal) Reform and Development Party, Mohamed Anwar El-Sadat, said that there are great opportunities for the success of the "Safe Return" initiative, which he launched a few days ago, and that the state and its agencies may officially become a party to this initiative during the coming period, coinciding with the launch of The national dialogue sessions called by President Abdel Fattah El-Sisi at the end of last Ramadan.
In an exclusive interview with Al Jazeera Net, El-Sadat spoke about large numbers of requests that they have received so far from Egyptian opponents abroad in order to return to their homeland, stressing that "it is difficult to accurately count these numbers at the present time, and we will announce the cases that we have received at the end of this month." ".
He pointed out that these requests will be collected in conjunction with the start of the national dialogue sessions, then the "Reform and Development" party will present this matter to the officials and rapporteurs of the dialogue committees, so that this file can be dealt with urgently and quickly.
But Sadat made it clear that there are now no guarantees preventing the arrest of returnees from abroad, "except for each person taking into account his movements, activities, and writings. There are some things that are difficult to accept by the state and its agencies, and standards and controls may be set and activated at a later stage."
The head of the Reform and Development Party added, "It is time to deal seriously with this important file, and this idea may be developed and crystallized in another way after discussing it in the presence of representatives of the state institutions concerned with this matter."
Sadat revealed that the national dialogue sessions are scheduled to be held with the participation of political forces during the first week of next October, explaining that invitations will be sent to parties and public figures to participate in the dialogue during the current week.
He is expected to be officially invited to participate in the national dialogue in the next few days.
On September 17, the Reform and Development Party (a component of the Civil Democratic Movement) launched the "Safe Return" initiative for dissident Egyptians abroad, amid mixed reactions.
How did you receive the various reactions that followed the launch of the "Safe Return" initiative for the Egyptian dissidents abroad?
Reactions to the initiative were mixed;
There was welcome and encouragement for some, and reservations for others so that they can be reassured that there are guarantees that returnees will not be subjected to any kind of harm, detention or arrest, and all of these are normal reactions, and there are many who sent us their statements and expressed their desire to return.
Specifically, how many requests have you received so far in order to return to Egypt again?
It is difficult to count numbers accurately at the present time;
Because the file for receiving applications is entrusted to other people, and also we are still receiving applications until the end of the month, and therefore it is now difficult to talk about specific numbers.
We have already received a significant number of cases that we will announce at the end of this month, and those who meet the criteria we announced in the initiative.
How will these requests be handled?
These requests will be collected in conjunction with the start of the national dialogue sessions, especially the sessions of the "political axis", which includes a number of sub-committees such as the Human Rights Committee and the exercise of political rights, and then the party will present this matter to the officials and rapporteurs of these committees, until this file is dealt with urgently and quickly.
What is the aim of this initiative?
Its goal is not, as some have understood, to return to participate in the national dialogue, but rather the goal is to invest the atmosphere and the general atmosphere to move this silent file regarding Egyptians abroad, regardless of the circumstances that made them leave Egypt, and an attempt to find a solution, even if we cannot find solutions. for all different cases;
There are cases that should not stay abroad any longer, but rather return safely and securely, and no one will be exposed to them, which is what actually happened with some cases that I know personally and I was the party and mediator in this return.
We will present all the requests that come to us before the responsibilities of those in charge of the national dialogue;
All are Egyptians and they have the right to return to their country at any time, in order to reassure their families and live a normal life. They also have the right to move freely and travel abroad again if someone wants to conduct his business abroad, meaning that he will not be prevented from traveling outside the country after his return to Egypt.
What is the authority responsible for determining the eligibility of a person to return or not?
The entity is certainly the state represented by the attorney general, and the security services;
These bodies are the ones who can determine the persons who have been sentenced, or that this person is the subject of an accusation in any case before the court, and therefore they are the ones who will decide that this person can return or not.
Why did a lot of local media ignore the talk about the "Safe Return" initiative?
Because of the sensitivity of this subject, which confirms and responds to the skeptics who say that the initiative was commissioned and coordinated with security agencies or from the state, but rather it is a personal proposal adopted by the Reform and Development Party, and it is something we have been thinking and discussing for years, and when we saw the state began to release Regarding some detainees in pretrial detention and presidential pardons issued, we found that it is a fortiori to return Egyptians wishing to return from abroad, and this media disregard was accompanied by an attack by some media professionals affiliated with the state apparatus.
If this proposal was primarily personal and partisan, why did you announce that the initiative is welcomed by the various state institutions?
I was very careful from the beginning about the choice of words, and I said that there is no sane country that refuses to return its citizens from abroad, especially those against whom no judicial rulings have been issued, and if the state releases detainees in pretrial detention, and issues presidential pardons for the convicts;
It is natural for her to welcome the return of her youth, men and women;
Hence the word "welcome", which does not mean that the state agrees, but rather what the state is doing these days does not contradict what we call for.
We assure you once again that this proposal is a partisan initiative, which we adopt along with other propositions related to national dialogue, some of which are economic and social, and propositions concerning our lives, our future and our ambitions.
This proposal did not come as a result of agreement or coordination with any of the state institutions at all.
But what if a returnee from abroad was arrested after being informed that there was no objection to his return?
This may happen with those who are inside, and not those who return from outside only, and therefore this matter is not related to the idea of returning from abroad, but rather depends on the person’s activity, writings, and comments inside the country, if he “observes the principles” and does not transgress the right of anyone He does not question anything, or does any offense against the state, and I do not think that he will be subjected to any kind of arrest or detention.
What is your explanation for the arrest again of some of those who were recently released, such as the political activist Sherif Al-Ruby and others?
Does this not contribute to the consolidation of the state of criticism and skepticism of the "Safe Return" initiative?
There are no guarantees of arrest again, except that each person's own movements, activities, and writings will be taken into account;
There are some things that are difficult to accept by the state and its agencies, and we are now playing our role, but taking into account not to transgress so as not to expose ourselves, our parties or any institutions affiliated with us to confrontation with the state or under penalty of legal accountability, and we raised this file because it concerns many Egyptians, With the discussions, standards and controls may be set and activated at a later stage, after the state and its agencies become a major party in this initiative.
In your estimation, when will the state and agencies officially become a party to the initiative?
We are waiting for the start of the national dialogue sessions - which are scheduled to take place in the first week of next October - and we will raise the matter among many other topics.
Whoever waited for 8 years should wait a month or two, and we will see the extent of the response and interaction, and we do not ask those abroad to return immediately, or that everything is fine, we have no interest in that.
We do not say that the state does this on the occasion of the national dialogue or on the occasion of the climate conference. Rather, the issue has preoccupied us for many years, and the time has come to deal with it seriously. Through the proposal, we are trying to develop the idea, or crystallize it in another way after discussing it, and for the discussion to take place in the presence of representatives of the state institutions concerned with this. command.
Is there anyone in the agencies and institutions who contacted you after the launch of the initiative?
No, no one has spoken to me yet about the "Safe Return" initiative, but through my previous experience - both with the Office of the Attorney General and with the security services - we succeeded in releasing large numbers of young people and those imprisoned in pretrial detention, as we succeeded in the return of some Egyptians from abroad, Those whose human and legal conditions necessitated their return, by deliberating and presenting the issue in some way. We found a response and a kind of rationality and wisdom by these institutions. Therefore, the chance is great for success, and I am very optimistic.
But at the same time, I appreciate the reactions and criticisms directed at the initiative, and I understand the allegations of people who say that “the initiative is behind the security services.” The person behind this criticism is “excused.”
Because of the long period of his absence, and what he hears from Egypt, all are disturbing and sad news, and if they allow me to return, they will not allow me to leave, but I say to everyone: Know that Egypt has honest and sincere people who want to help and do not want anything, and I and others could have sat and watched From afar, we are satisfied with that.
And if in our presentation of some expressions that disturbed some, such as “the return of youth,” we do not mean, of course, only young people, but Egyptians of all ages, and some denied the expression “one who offended unintentionally.”
Where is the good word?
We're trying to smoothen things out, and you want to draw your sword?
And I go back and repeat: I am very optimistic, and I see that there are great opportunities for very many cases of Egyptians abroad to be able to return again.
How do you see the contradiction between the requirement not to be accused of violence and to join terrorist groups for those wishing to return, and the "ready" accusations that imprisoned activists are subjected to for joining terrorist groups and being involved in violent cases and eventually being released from prison?
What is the standard for that?
Some were disturbed by the word “conditions” in formulating the initiative, and in fact, they are not conditions, but rather criteria that apply to some, and by virtue of my being a political man, and a good reader of the political scene, and what is available at this stage, we set this criterion, although we know with certainty that this The criterion applies only to a small segment, and most of the large segment does not apply to them the criteria, such as those who have been sentenced to court, or have previously joined political currents such as the Muslim Brotherhood, or those who have been included in pending cases, and judgments may result from that, so my view was To start with what is possible and what is available, to see what results this proposition might produce in the return of some people in peace and safety.
Perhaps this idea will develop in the near future so that there is a space that includes everyone without exception with the passage of time, the stability of the situation, and the calmness of souls;
Everyone has the right to return, and we are waiting for the initiative to be presented in its current form to see the extent of the response and reactions. If there is a response to be more comprehensive and general, this is something that we are very pleased with, and if it is limited and limited at this stage - as I expect - then welcome.
George Ishaq and Kamal Abu Aita confirmed, in previous statements, that there are differences within state agencies regarding the degree of openness of the public sphere. How true are these statements?
I have no information on this matter, and I do not know the source of their information, but what I know very well is that all the agencies in Egypt coordinate with each other, and when I say “coordination” this means that there may be a difference in viewpoints between them or in the way the problem is addressed, but in In the end, everyone is committed to policies and trends, because the state has "one head." As for reaching "conflicts", this is absolutely out of the question. In the end, what is agreed upon is what everyone is committed to.
These are responsible state agencies, and the matter is not managed with personal whims.
What value does Muhammad Anwar al-Sadat represent for him to play this role in releasing prisoners of conscience and the return of Egyptian opponents abroad, especially since he is excluded from participating in the national dialogue?
He laughed: “Perhaps because of his lightness or his good spirit.” This is in light of his experience, expertise and method of persuasion, in addition to the fact that he bears a name with a long and great history, but the role he played in seeking to release some detainees from custody, and other cases Such as mediating to relieve some detainees in their prison, or to facilitate their stay in their place of detention, and other matters related to humanitarian aspects such as travel, have completely stopped since the announcement of the formation of the presidential pardon committee, and the national dialogue with all its axes.
And stopping means that I am not doing it now, but the National Council for Human Rights is doing it as an institution in its own right, as an assistant factor with the Amnesty Committee and with all state institutions. and a call for national dialogue.
As for not calling for the national dialogue, this is correct, and it is the result of my view at the beginning of the launch of the national dialogue, but the correction was made based on the observations I made regarding the venue of the dialogue, and a board of trustees and multiple committees was formed, and rapporteurs were named for the various committees, and they became owners of the decision on the topics for discussion, and the parties to be invited;
The decision is now in the hands of the Board of Trustees, which includes members of the civil movement, which represents the body of the opposition, and of course it is not all the opposition, but rather a symbolic representation of the opposition, and there are other opponents who have full respect.
And during this current week, invitations will be sent to parties and public figures to participate in the national dialogue sessions, and I expect that the invitation will be sent to us during the next few days, and I am participating and present in the dialogue in an indirect way, through a group of civil movement parties and personalities of which I am a member, as for the direct attendance It will happen when invitations are extended to everyone who is interested in the topics related to him.
Why has the National Dialogue sessions not started yet, when they were scheduled for the beginning of last July?
The issue is not that simple, and the delay is caused by the formation of the committees, and there was agreement on names and disagreement over others, and preparing very many details, so it took longer than expected for them, but the important thing is to start, and what topics will be raised, and what the attendees will end up with, whoever they are loyal or Opponents or those with an independent opinion, the important thing is that he finds his way through the recommendations that will be submitted to the President of the Republic, and even implementation and implementation, whether by new draft laws, or by amending existing laws or decisions taken related to economic affairs, or with regard to rights and freedoms, pretrial detention, and other topics that are Prepare its files now, and we hope to reach a minimum consensus among everyone to find its way to implementation.
For more than two years, you have been promising a "big breakthrough" in the Egyptian political and human rights scene, don't you see that you were overly optimistic?
That you have hope and optimism is much better than pessimism, and I am by nature an optimist, and I am still, even if the breakthrough was not great and did not extend to many, but what I see now in Egypt is far from any successes in some economic and social situations;
The state is striving, and trying as much as possible, but what concerns me is the political and legal file, even if the rate of releases is limited and modest. We are witnessing successive releases, and there are others on the way, and this is the beginning of a good thing to build on, until we reach a formula that makes everyone feel that He exercises his role, and that his opinion has value, so that we make people share their opinion regarding laws or any practices or policies related to them, and that their voice has value and impact, all of which will not happen overnight.
I also see that there is now no justification for any exceptional measures, and there is no justification for there to remain restrictions and impediments for people to exercise their rights in light of respect for the law and the constitution, and the Egyptian state currently has no excuse for the exceptional measures to remain.
The situation is stable, and the state is coherent even with our suffering with economic problems and financial conditions, but it is time to open all the silent files, especially with regard to politics, parliament, localities, journalists, and the right to expression, and all these files must be opened and find their way to a solution, this What I wish for, and what I always strive for, and optimistic about its solution.
What is the real purpose of the hoped-for state of openness and dialogue, as some say that its main purpose is to try to absorb the expected popular anger due to the worsening economic crisis?
I hear this talk and more, not only in order to absorb popular anger, but is also linked to external pressures, and is linked to international conferences in which Egypt is a party, such as the international climate conference "COP 27" that Egypt will host next November, the IMF negotiations, and others. It is speculation, but what I see is that the government is extending its hands and trying to reform and change the laws, and it is enacting elections laws to allow the opposition parties to take their chance in representation in parliament and localities.
And if the government is extending its hand to release those held in pretrial detention through presidential pardon decisions, then all of them are gains, and we must look at the bright side through the happiness that pervaded families and families over the past few months after the departure of their children, and if there is a lot suffering, we will remain behind them until they obtain their freedom. .
We also do not want to be prisoners of the past, for the past was difficult, and the state made it clear that it was going through circumstances and challenges, some of which were internal challenges such as terrorism and violence, and external challenges from the surrounding countries and the external countries that support and support them. This allows treatment and the abolition of exceptional restrictions and practices. We have to give the state a chance, and ourselves a chance. If they believe in it, it is blessed, and if they do not believe, we will stand up again and say: “No, you have not changed.”
Therefore, I invite people to be patient, and if people have been patient and enduring a lot, at least we are at the beginning of the road, and if some releases are not everything, but it is the beginning and we will see what happens later.