Tunis -

The head of the Tunisian Judges Association, Anas Al-Hamaydi, said that the suspension of all Tunisian courts will be extended next week if President Kais Saied does not reverse the decision to dismiss 57 judges under the pretext of corruption and complicity with terrorism.

Al-Hamaydi, in an exclusive interview with Al-Jazeera Net, accused President Saeed of committing "gross constitutional violations, to swallow up the legislative, executive and judicial powers," and that he "used the dismissal to serve his political agenda, and in an effort (from him) to strike the judicial system, and use it to settle accounts with his political opponents."

Al-Hamaydi also accused the Tunisian president of "bullying the Ministry of the Interior," stressing that "the security establishment is tainted by many corruption files, but Saeed does not look at them, because he strengthens the state institutions with it."

Dialog text:

President of the Tunisian Judges Association Anas Al-Hammadi (center) accused President Kais Saied of assassinating the judiciary (Anatolia)

  • What is your comment on the presidential order dismissing 57 judges and President Saeed's talk about their involvement in corruption, collusion, and cover-up of terrorism?

It is an unjust, illegal and unconstitutional order, and it did not respect the basic principles of the independence of the judiciary, and did not respect the procedures and guarantees granted to judges when they are disciplined or criminally prosecuted.

This matter did not come to combat corruption or to combat the imbalances in the judiciary;

Rather, it came for political ends to dominate it.

  • What are the most prominent procedures that you consider to violate the law and target judges?

The first violations that the president began to commit were insulting, intimidating and defaming judges in ministerial councils and during his meetings with the ministers of justice and interior and senior judges.

From here, pressure began on the judiciary. Despite that, we were patient and did not want to enter into a confrontation with the president;

But he continued his violations, then the suspicious pages - claiming to be loyal to him - launched smear campaigns against the judges and incited them without following them, despite our complaints.

On February 6, 2022, Qais Saeed dissolved the elected and elected Supreme Council of the Sharia Judiciary, from the headquarters of the Ministry of the Interior in which he is strengthening, sending a message from it that he is fortified by the security leaders and threatens the judges either to respond to its program and instructions or to impose the maximum penalty on them.

This penalty came by dissolving the Supreme Judicial Council, cordoning off its building with security forces, preventing its president and members from entering it, seizing its administrative documents, and then setting up an illegitimate, unelected temporary council that does not represent judges and is loyal to the President of the Republic, and its powers are subject to it.

Even this council did not give the president enough time to carry out his work, because he is in a hurry to implement his agenda;

Therefore, a fictitious ministerial council was held on the first of this June to ratify Decree (34) relating to the revision of the Law of the Supreme Judicial Council and the issuance of presidential order (516) to dismiss 57 judges, which is a usurpation of the law and a serious perversion of authority. Judges will not accept the usurpation of their authority, and they have the right to protest. By all means, in defense of its independence.


  • Among the exempted list are judges - some say they are - under suspicion of corruption.

    Is not their dismissal a reformist approach and in line with popular demands to purify the judiciary?

We acknowledge the existence of some manifestations of corruption in the judiciary, and we were among those who struggled and opposed these manifestations, and everyone knows the role played by the Judges Association in tracking the file of the first president of the Court of Cassation, the file of the former public prosecutor and the files of 13 judges covered by the investigation in the General Inspection at the Ministry of Justice, but Qais Saeed took Some of these names to cover the great crime committed against many of the honest judges.

The president put all the judges in one basket and promoted that all the dismissed judges are corrupt, bribery and supportive of terrorism and that they have moral issues, while 45 of the dismissed judges do not have any corruption files, and corruption suspicions related to only 10 judges, and part of their files took their normal course of accountability, Among them is the file of a judge whose immunity was lifted, suspended from work, an investigation was opened, and she was imprisoned.

By dismissing the judges, the president is carrying out a political process for the purpose of a well-known program, and it has nothing to do with fighting corruption, because whoever wants to do so does not deal with the corrupt, and he must set out to fight corruption in all state agencies without exception.

We know very well that the Ministry of Interior has a lot of corruption, with our respect for the honorable people of this institution, but it is implicated in corruption, and the transitional justice files are the biggest witness to this, whether in cases of rape, enforced disappearance, torture and violation of honor, but all this is not seen by the President because he strengthens this institution and provides It has a political and legal cover.

We also know that there are judges who deal directly with the Ministry of the Interior, and they are involved in arranging the list of dismissed judges, even though they are covered by corruption files, among them a judge sentenced to 5 years in prison, but the dismissal did not include her while she deals with the security authorities and provides them with information.

  • Why has the judiciary not been purified of these corrupt people?

We have always called for the proper purification of the judiciary in accordance with international procedures, principles and standards, and there are controlled mechanisms that strengthen the integrity and independence of the judiciary, but with respect for the right to litigation, provision of conditions for a fair trial, respect for the right of defense and the principles of transparency and integrity.

We tried the mechanism of dismissal of judges in 2012 during the period of former Minister of Justice Noureddine El-Beheiri (Ennahda Movement), who claimed that he wanted to purify the judiciary, as President Said says now, but the mechanism that included 82 judges at that time did not reform the judiciary and did not purify it.

This mechanism used by President Saeed - after all the constitutional guarantees that came in the section of the judiciary in the 2014 constitution - will not reform or purify the judiciary. On the contrary, it will support political corruption, support the loyalty of judges to the President of the Republic, and feed their fear for their livelihood.

This brings the country back to the square of dictatorship that denies institutions and exalts one person to put his hand on all authorities and replace institutions.

One of the biggest manifestations of dictatorship is the seizure of the judiciary, because the concept of democracy is established only through the separation of powers and the building of an independent judiciary.

After the president seized the legislative power and swallowed the entire executive power, he is usurping the entire judiciary, and we judges have the right to confront this, in defense of the values ​​of the republic and democracy.

Accusations of President Qais Saeed of using the dismissal of judges to strike the judiciary and its use for political ends (Al-Jazeera)

  • In your opinion, who is targeting the president with this decision?

    The judiciary itself or its political opponents?

He aims to strike and use the judiciary at the same time, because if he does not strike it in its institutions that defend it, its people, its symbolism and its integrity, it will not be able to use the judiciary.

With this step, he wants to deny the existence of the judiciary;

He has repeatedly expressed this by saying that there is no judicial authority, but rather a judicial function.

This contradicts all the principles of judicial independence. Rather, it has been proven through the list of exemptions and the dismissal of judges that he wants to spend less than his job, and therefore the purpose of striking the judiciary is to use it again for political ends, which have nothing to do with the rule of law or the protection of rights and freedoms.

  • How do you view the immunity granted to judges, does it not represent a form of impunity for them?

On the contrary, immunity exists in all systems, and the immunity of the judge strengthens his independence and impartiality and closes the doors to blackmail him or fabricate some cases and malicious charges against him.

But there is no absolute immunity;

Rather, it is subject to controls that are protected by judicial institutions, specifically the Supreme Council of Sharia Judiciary and the elected. This happened with a judge who was caught receiving money from a foreign party, and her immunity was lifted and a criminal investigation was opened against her and she is now in prison.

Also, the immunity of the former head of the Court of Cassation, which is the highest judicial position in the judiciary, was lifted, and there is a case under investigation.

This is evidence that there is no immunity for those who have irrefutable suspicions of corruption, but the lifting of immunity is based on support, serious breaches and evidence, and not just secret reports and wiretapping of judges outside the framework of the law, which is what the Ministry of Interior is currently doing.


  • Are there innocent judges who were dismissed by the Tunisian president?

Out of 57 isolated judges, only 10 are subject to disciplinary measures, while 45 judges are not covered at all by any kind of disciplinary or penal prosecution, including the head of the Supreme Council of Sharia Judiciary, Youssef Bouzacher, the attorney general of the Court of Appeal in Tunis, and the first president of the Court The Appeals Chamber in Tunis, the Public Prosecutor at the Court of First Instance in Tunis, the Dean of the Investigative Judges, 10 investigative judges and 19 public prosecutors, are among the most sensitive and dangerous positions.

Among the dismissed judges is an administrative judge who was subjected to a mere dispute with a security agent, and while she is a judge known for her impartiality, competence and independence, she was dismissed.

There is also another administrative judge who was disciplinary and punished by suspending her from work for a period of 6 months with a deduction from her salary.

This judge served her sentence and then returned to work, but the president imposed the punishment on her again and dismissed her, meaning that she was punished for the same act twice.

The first president of the Court of Appeal in Tunis, known for her competence, integrity, and independence, was dismissed.

Because it refused to use it in the case related to the annulment of the non-electoral conference of the Tunisian General Labor Union last summer, and to refer the case to a specific person or a certain department outside the objective controls and principles of transparency in judicial work.

And the President of the Republic’s targeting of these sensitive judicial positions aims to put a hand on the Public Prosecution and investigation apparatus, after their refusal to respond to the instructions of the executive authority to liquidate their opponents and unjustly put Tunisians in prison.

When the judges refused to comply with the illegal instructions, they found themselves isolated.

  • There is talk of divisions within the association, including opponents of the strike and supporters of the president. How true is that?

We affirm that we do not have any kind of division, neither within the Assembly of Judges nor in the judicial body.

This was demonstrated in the best way in the mass meeting at the Palace of Justice, on the fourth of this June, in the presence of 1,500 judges and all the judicial structures representing judges, and was embodied in the high response rate to the protest movements of judges with the suspension of work in all courts for a week since last Monday, which amounted to 99% , which are unprecedented moves that embody the unity of the judicial row, and therefore those who want to play on the chord of rifts and differences, we tell him in advance, this is a closed door.

  • Where lies the origin of the disease in the Tunisian judiciary?

    Does the executive authority have a mechanism for reform away from isolation?

Several reforms have taken place in the 2014 constitution, which are excellent, and the door to the judiciary in this constitution is a source of pride for Tunisia. The Supreme Judicial Council was established and elected, and the law related to the Court of Accounts was enacted. Unfortunately, the legal and legislative structure of the judiciary has not been completed, in violation of the political authority.

As much as we call for the highest levels of guarantees for judges, we call for the highest levels of accountability against the corrupt among them, and accountability must be carried out through the General Inspection Agency for Independent Judicial Affairs, which was stipulated in the Basic Law of the Supreme Judicial Council, but it has not happened so far, so that work continues in the affiliated inspection For the Ministry of Justice, because the political authority refuses to create this independent oversight body to leave outlets for judges to control it.

We called in the Assembly of Judges repeatedly to reform the judiciary, and we rejoiced well for the arrival of the President of the Republic, who used to say that an independent judiciary is better than a thousand constitutions, but unfortunately he is now the biggest violator of the judiciary, and today we find judges who are dismissed for very trivial issues without proportionality between action and punishment.

From the protests of Tunisian judges (Reuters)

  • How many times was the dismissal of judges in Tunisia?

    And when is that?

    And what are its purposes?

One of the eras that witnessed the dismissal of judges was the year 1985, during the period of President Habib Bourguiba;

When a large group was dismissed as a result of the strike announcement by the Young Judges Association at the time, then judges were dismissed during the period of former President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali based on judicial files, and during that era judges with consequences were called to resign, in order to preserve the prestige of the judiciary, but Judges were arbitrarily dismissed, the most famous of which is the late Mokhtar Al Yahyaoui, based on the famous letter he sent to the President of the Republic in July 2001, and he was tracked down, referred to the Disciplinary Council and dismissed.

After the revolution in early 2011, the government of Beji Caid Essebsi dismissed 6 of the most loyal judges linked to the previous regime, but we in the assembly issued a statement to express our rejection of the mechanism of dismissal of judges.

Then, of course, after that, the former Minister of Justice, Noureddine Al-Buhairi (Ennahda Movement), dismissed 82 judges outside all standards and controls, in a political process whose effects are still present today.

Finally, the dangerous step taken by the President of the Republic after dismissing 57 judges.


  • How do you view the deprivation of the dismissed judges from the right to sue until after a ruling has been issued against them despite the length of the litigation procedures?

This is the biggest violation of the constitutional principle, which is the right to resort to litigation, but the President of the Republic violates all the chapters of the Constitution, from its introduction to the chapter on rights and freedoms, to the chapter of the legislative authority, the chapter of the executive authority, and the chapter of the judicial authority.

The president also violated the principle of the "presumption of innocence", considering that the accused is innocent until proven guilty, whether in the disciplinary or penal tracks, and deprived judges of this principle and treated them in a manner less than the ordinary citizen.

  • What does dismissal of judges mean professionally and socially?

It means their legal, societal, familial and psychological execution, an execution that does not stop at their people, but reaches their families.

It also means their economic execution;

Because it deprives them of the principle of safety guaranteed to judges, which is referring them to long-term unemployment while depriving them of the right to sue, except after a criminal judgment is issued after 10 or 15 years due to the length of the procedures.

The President of the Republic criticizes the length of the legal procedures, and then refers the judges after their dismissal to these long procedures and deprives them of the right to go to the Administrative Court to obtain a ruling that does justice to them within reasonable deadlines.

This is the true meaning of mass execution, and this massacre must be stopped, and we are ready to stop our protest movements as soon as we suspend the presidential decree (35) and presidential order (516) and open the way for real and serious accountability that respects judicial procedures and controls.

A Tunisian protests the dissolution of the Supreme Judicial Council last February (European)

  • You announced the strike despite the repercussions on the interests of citizens?

    How successful is this move?

We evaluate positively the suspension of work in all courts, and the response rate of judicial, financial and administrative colleagues reached 99% during the first week of the strike, and we believe that it is the president’s duty to assume his historical responsibility to stop this massacre, so that we can return and resume work in the courts.

  • What is the fate of your protests if the president does not back down?

We decided - in a mass meeting - to suspend the work of the courts for a week, which can be renewed in the event that this grievance is not raised, and it will be renewed for the next week.

Therefore, I am addressing the President of the Republic to stop issuing lists of exemptions and to retract the matter (516) in the interest of the country, so as not to be dragged into dangerous slippages.

We do not practice politics, and our faith is neutrality and independence, and we have no disagreement with the president, and we do not have any program with him or against him, so we turn to him with all hopes that the country's interest will prevail, and we are ready to sit down to discuss aspects of reforming the judiciary.