"I think this is incredible hypocrisy": Hungarian Foreign Minister - on Europe's position on migrants and EU criticism of Russia

- You are a frequent visitor to Russia, you have strong relations with China and many other countries, however, it seems that in the European Union (your home, your family) Hungary is still treated a bit like an obnoxious child.

Why do you think?

- And not even a little.

There is now a big debate in the European Union about what the EU should look like in the future.

I believe that the existence of such a discussion should be perceived as something completely natural, since the European Union actually faced many challenges at the same time.

And it is obvious that in the current circumstances it is perfectly natural to discuss in which direction to move on.

About the migration crisis

- When you faced the migration crisis, many Western journalists condemned Hungary for not being hospitable enough to migrants.

- Yes.

- If we compare this with the coverage of the current migration crisis on the Polish-Belarusian border, the indignation is already much lower.

How is this perceived by Budapest, this changing level of righteousness on the issue of migration?

- I was lucky to have held my post for more than seven years, so I remember very well who and what said five or six years ago.

In the EU (now -

) there are only three foreign ministers who held the same post in 2015.

I remember the attacks on us, I remember the extremely hostile attitude towards us.

Those who treated us very rudely at that time are now actually standing up applauding those who act about the same as we did in 2015.

Our position remains unchanged: the external borders of the European Union must be protected.

And it is the sovereign right of each state to determine who to let on the territory of your country, with whom you are ready to live and with whom you are not.

- You say that your position remains the same.

However, in my opinion, it is obvious that Europe's position on the issue of migration has changed.

It is no longer based on the "open door" policy, as you call it.

How, in your opinion, has Europe's attitude towards this issue changed over the past five years?

“I think this is incredible hypocrisy.

If you listen to some of the comments that you also quoted, it seems that the countries of Western Europe have changed their minds on the issue of migration.

However, when it comes to supporting pro-migration-minded NGOs, when it comes to the Western Balkan Migration Route, or incredibly irresponsible statements about the state of affairs in Afghanistan, or the situation in the Mediterranean region ...

Also on russian.rt.com, Duda expressed the hope that Russia will not allow the flow of migrants from Afghanistan to the EU

Perhaps there are some comments that seem to sound different compared to what has been said since 2015, but the essence of European migration policy, unfortunately, has remained unchanged.

If you study the statements or founding documents of the new German coalition government, you will see that it is extremely migratory.

Extremely.

On the perception of Russia in the EU

- Chancellor Angela Merkel was the main driving force behind the 2015 agreement.

In addition, she was one of the main authors of the multiculturalism policy in the EU.

How do you think her departure will affect the dialogue ongoing both on the territory of the European Union and beyond?

- It is curious that this issue is inextricably linked with the upcoming presidential elections in France.

When these elections are over, the two most powerful countries in the European Union will have new leadership.

Of course, Germany is our main trade and investment partner.

Therefore, it is very important for Hungary that relations with Germany are practical and based on mutual respect.

Unfortunately, lately we have been almost constantly attacked by the German left-wing parties and the German media, in particular because of our relations with Russia.

And this despite the fact that the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline is, in fact, a joint project of Germany and Russia.

Or, let's say, the other day I visited the Kaluga region and saw there huge billboards of companies represented there.

Among them were the largest companies from Germany, France, Italy, Spain ...

• © REUTERS / Anton Vaganov

- They are always happy to work in Russia.

- Of course.

I got what you mean.

- But this does not prevent them from calling Russia different bad words.

In your opinion, is there a connection between the EU's influence, its ability to solve practical problems and its tendency to humiliate other countries, use verbal or ideological insults?

- I think yes.

- Do these things influence each other?

They call your country and ours all sorts of bad words, but at the same time they continue to do business with us.

- Yes.

This is a monstrous hypocrisy, because in reality large and powerful countries can afford to say one thing and do another.

Smaller countries cannot afford this.

Our words coincide with deeds.

We cannot afford such that they diverge.

At the same time, Western European countries say one thing and do another.

So, they always criticize Russia, but they make big deals with you.

Likewise, they criticize China and criticize us for cooperating with Russia and China, and then they make huge contracts with the Chinese.

This is what I mean.

On the US approach to dialogue with Europe

- As far as I know, Hungary has not been invited to the upcoming "summit in support of democracy", which is so eager to host the Biden administration.

Moreover, Hungary is the only EU member that has been left out, so to speak.

- And we are one of two (not invited. -

) NATO countries.

- Aren't you offended?

- No.

We are a country with a thousand-year history.

A Christian country with a thousand-year history, full of struggle for freedom and sovereignty.

And we do not need someone from the outside to assess the state of our democracy.

We are not some high school students who have to study for the final exam.

- Yes, you can, of course, distance yourself, but still, injustice is injustice.

- Yes, but ... Again, we don't need a judge.

Not needed at all.

We perfectly understand what and how in our country.

We are proud of our democracy and the struggle for freedom throughout our history.

We are proud of our thousand-year history.

And we do not need anyone to assure this, so to speak.

- Let me paraphrase a little.

After all, the Hungarian government had a pretty warm relationship with the Trump administration.

With the Biden administration, it was not possible to maintain them at the same level.

If I am not mistaken, it was Joe Biden who, during his election campaign, compared your power to totalitarian.

“I don’t think they care much ...”

• © REUTERS / Kevin Lamarque

- Democracy?

- No, the real state of affairs in our countries.

Unfortunately, what they say about us has nothing to do with reality.

Their ideological approach is fundamentally different from ours.

I even remember, because I myself was a witness that until 2016, under the last democratic government, they constantly criticized us for adopting a new constitution, for the fact that it is based on Christian traditions.

They criticized us for putting our national interests above all else.

So we look at the world completely differently.

And I don't think this is a problem.

After all, we are different, so we can think in different ways.

In this respect, the only thing that worries me is the lack of mutual respect.

After all, we respect the decisions of American citizens and the direction in which they want to move in the future.

We respect their choice of the President of the country.

But we do not receive such respect in return.

There are a lot of lies, fake news and insults addressed to the country, to the Prime Minister, who, by the way, personally fought for freedom.

For pragmatic relations between East and West

- In the last couple of months I have noticed that Budapest has become a kind of meeting place for people from all over Europe.

Precisely that for the whole.

Because when my acquaintances Russians and, say, the British want to meet somewhere in Europe in this era of quarantines and the associated inconveniences, Budapest turns out to be the best option, due to the combination of a convenient geographic location and acceptable restrictive measures.

- We are a Central European country.

We have always been between the West and the East, and we are trying to take advantage of this our position.

• globallookpress.com

• © Robert Michael

- That is, it is a purposeful effort?

- Of course.

And this can be seen even in our foreign policy strategy - we have always wanted the relations between East and West to be pragmatic, so that they constantly conduct a dialogue.

Why?

Because history has taught us that in any conflict between the East and the West, the countries of Central Europe, including Hungary, are always the losers.

We're tired of losing.

Therefore, when we stand for dialogue, for pragmatic relations, mutual respect, mutual trust and so on, this does not mean that we are actually spying or something else.

This is stupid.

Sputnik vaccination and pandemic challenges

- Our countries have agreed on the mutual recognition of vaccination certificates.

As far as I understand, people in Hungary can choose from a fairly wide range of vaccines.

You have personally been vaccinated with Sputnik V.

- Right.

Why do you think your European neighbors are not following this example?

Do you think there is some political motive behind this?

- To be honest, I cannot find the words to describe my feelings about the fact that many countries still view vaccination issues through an ideological or political lens.

After all, we are talking about the lives of people.

- Their citizens are dying, business is dying.

So what's the benefit?

- I have no idea.

I can't even imagine.

And, frankly, this state of affairs is very upsetting to me.

Let me explain why.

European regulations are very clear about how a vaccine is approved in the EU.

There are two ways.

The first is through the European Medicines Agency.

This is, so to speak, the standard way.

But!

The European regulations - mind you, the regulations of not a single country, but European ones - say that in the event of an emergency (such as now), national regulatory authorities also have the right to temporarily approve a particular vaccine.

That is, before we began to use Sputnik and the Chinese vaccine from Sinopharm in the country, both of them were approved by our regulatory body.

Therefore, the use of the Sputnik V vaccine in Hungary is based on European standards.

And every time I talk face to face with my colleagues from Western Europe, I repeat, from Western Europe, they tell me that the scientific achievements of Russia can only be spoken of to an excellent degree.

- Of course, this ("Sputnik V" -

) is one of the most effective vaccines.

If not the most effective one.

- Exactly.

And they know it.

They understand that the Sputnik vaccine works great, and they themselves tell me about it behind closed doors.

To which I answer: "Yes, it is the most effective."

Of course.

It was approved by Hungarian experts.

But despite the fact that they all talk about it in private conversations, in public they behave very differently.

- So, such inaction on the part of your European neighbors only plays into your hands.

Is not it so?

- In fact, we won quite a lot at first (vaccinations -

).

At the very beginning, say, in the first months of this year, deliveries from Western manufacturers were very often delayed, and sometimes even completely canceled, or a smaller number of vaccines arrived than was stipulated in the contract.

And then, the fact that both Sputnik and the vaccine from Sinopharm were delivered on time and in greater quantities than vaccines from other manufacturers became a great advantage for us.

We were able to reopen the country and restart the economy about two months earlier than the European average.

Thanks to this, by the summer, our economy reached the indicators that were before the pandemic.

Given that, in general, the world economy will come to this only by the end of next year.

So it's a year and a half head start.

Obviously, this has given us a lot of advantages.

Not to mention the fact that due to restrictive measures in the first half of this year, the national economy was losing € 30 million a day.

Also on russian.rt.com "Real Breakthrough": one year from the date of registration of the Russian vaccine against coronavirus "Sputnik V"

- You

- One way or another, the reasons for my decision are very clear - when I was a child, I was vaccinated with vaccines produced in Russia, then the Soviet Union.

Well, since I am alive and everything is fine with me, why change something?

It was from such simple considerations that I chose Sputnik.

- I'm sure Russian officials will be very happy to hear this.

Contrary to initial expectations, it seems that the coronavirus is with us for a long time.

Probably, it will put on society a much heavier burden than previously thought.

- I thought that the pandemic will have one positive point.

This is the emergence among world states of an understanding of how much we all depend on each other.

I hoped that conflicts would be a thing of the past and countries would understand that we must cooperate on issues such as saving lives.

Unfortunately, here I was disappointed.

Nothing of the sort happened.

There is no common effort either in the scientific field or in the vaccine issue.

Although, I must note that last year I still had some hope, when, together with us, in the "queue" for Chinese ventilators, masks, gloves and protective clothing for medical personnel were lined up and all those Western countries that previously criticized China with might and main. ...

I thought that maybe this would change their position - they may not change their views, but the relationship itself may become more balanced and respectful.

Unfortunately, this did not happen.

For the full interview, see the RTD website.