"If offered, I will testify": ex-SBU officer Prozorov - on participation in the ECHR sessions on the claim of the Russian Federation against Ukraine

- Vasily Nikolaevich, you said that you are ready to appear in the European Court of Human Rights on the claim of Moscow against Kiev and give evidence.

What kind of evidence do you intend to present to the ECHR?

- “I intend to present” is probably said loudly.

If asked, I will testify.

As for the specific facts that I can voice, in short, it is an obstacle to the activities of the media, illegal methods of war related to strikes against residential and critical infrastructure, of course, illegal imprisonment, extrajudicial persecution and torture of civilians.

- Could you explain in more detail what you can talk about at the trial?

- First.

Obstacles to media activities.

This is an episode in May 2014, when two of your colleagues, journalists of the Life News channel, were detained by the Ukrainian security forces in the city of Kramatorsk and taken to the base camp of the Ukrainian security forces in the village of Dolgenkoye, Kharkiv region.

At that time, I was there as part of the SBU operational group and was directly involved in inspecting the belongings of the detained journalists, I was present during the initial interviews with your colleagues.

I saw how the Ukrainian security forces behaved with them: they put them in a pit, personal belongings and money disappeared, they put bags on their heads, wrapped their eyes with duct tape - that's all I saw.

The second is strikes against residential and critical infrastructure.

I witnessed how the Ukrainian army, during one of the attempts to seize Slavyansk by force in June 2014, practically smashed the suburb of Semyonovka into rubble.

I saw how the Ukrainian artillery just beat in the direction of residential buildings, not figuring out where it would end up.

• The building of the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg

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• © Dominic Vomer

Then, when Slavyansk was already on the territory controlled by Ukraine, I often drove through that area and saw that there was practically not a single whole structure left, including several shells flew into the school.

It's good that the school year was over and there were no children there.

And the third part, on which I, of course, can act as a witness, is torture, illegal imprisonment and extrajudicial executions.

This, first of all, concerns the episodes of my rotations in the summer-autumn of 2014 to the city of Mariupol, and the notorious unofficial prison on the territory of the Mariupol airport, the so-called “library”.

- Who was held in this prison, how many people passed through it, and what happened to the people there?

- I have to repeat once again that I have no documentary evidence of this and cannot be.

Because this prison, as we will call it, was absolutely unofficial, absolutely illegal. For you to understand, these are two industrial refrigerating chambers in which the airport restaurant kept its products, that is, two rooms - 3 by 5 meters and 2 by 3 meters - with a serious iron door. They didn't work. And in these cells were kept people who were detained by the Ukrainian security forces. During my rotation in the summer of 2014, in a month, I calculated that about 200 people passed through the "library".

Someone got there for several hours, and someone sat there for five days.

Everyone's fates were different.

Someone was held for two days and released.

And then someone was officially registered as detainees, they were brought to criminal responsibility and further detained in the procedural plan.

I am at a loss to say how many people were there.

Because it ("library" -

RT

) functioned before me and functioned after me.

As far as I know, this prison was operational back in 2018.

- Your rejection of what is happening in Ukraine began with the events on the Maidan.

What factor was decisive in deciding to deal with what was happening?

- It was clear to sane people as soon as Maidan won what this would lead to.

Nationalism, which is already passing into the stage of fascism and Nazism, categorical rejection of everything Russian and denial of common history, etc.

Then, in 2014, it was clear where this would lead.

And now, after seven years, I am once again convinced that I was not mistaken then and did everything right: it was impossible to act differently.

Subsequent events only strengthened my opinion - when the ATO began, when it was clear that there was still no organized resistance in Donbass, and the Ukrainian government had already moved there an army with aircraft, artillery, and tanks.

Not the internal troops, not the National Guard, as it was renamed immediately, not the police.

Roughly speaking, they began to "hammer" peaceful cities with the help of tough military force.

Then there were events in Odessa, which were simply horrifying.

Any sane person understood that this was just an act of intimidation in order to scare everyone in the south-east of Ukraine: "Look what happens to you."

I will tell you that it was after the events in Odessa that a lot of people from all over the rest of Ukraine reached the Donbass, who then fought as part of the militia against the Kiev authorities.

It was the trigger for the opponents of the Maidan, which pushed many people to armed resistance.

- How did you come up with the idea to follow the path of Julian Assange and create the UkrLeaks Investigation Center?

- When I arrived in Russia, when I escaped from Ukraine, I had in my hands a colossal archive of documents: secret, top-secret, for official use, an archive of documents from the SBU, the armed forces, the national guard. And these documents largely revealed the war crimes of the Ukrainian authorities against their people in the Donbass. And I wanted people to see it. So that people can see the background of various events, which cannot be called other than war crimes. And the best way to get it across is through the media and the Internet. And so the idea was born to create an investigation center. And I will say that I have achieved some success. This, of course, is largely thanks to the help of caring citizens both on the territory of Ukraine and on the territory of Russia, and, I will note, in other countries, as well as thanks to that archive of documents,which I managed to get in almost four years of work.

In addition, I have a YouTube channel on which I post my videos: versions, remarks and investigative films.

I should note that this is the third YouTube channel.

My two YouTube channels were destroyed by the Google administration.

But the third is still alive.

While people watch it, like it, share comments, which I read with great interest.

I want to point out that I read them all so that people know that feedback exists.

- But the amount of documents that you have is not endless.

Can you learn more about how you collect information from people who, as you said, are not indifferent to what is happening in Ukraine?

Who are these people?

How do they send you information? 

- I cannot go into the technical issues of information transmission, because people

live

there (in Ukraine -

RT

), they are worried about their safety.

Sometimes I don't even know who it is.

People send me documents by mail and say: “You made wonderful remarks about the good-wills.

And I have documents for the "Aydar" battalion.

See if they can help you with your investigation. "

It happens.

It happens that people just send links to some sites where interesting documents are posted.

And in combination with the materials I have, a rather interesting result is obtained.

- Our conversation found you on the road.

You are now busy with another investigation.

Can you tell us something about him?

- This is a continuation of my remarks about the virtuous.

Only if my previous remarks are based on the 2014-2018 archival materials and media reports that I have, now there are people who have witnessed crimes committed, including by fighters of volunteer battalions in Ukraine, in the period 2014-2016.

And with these witnesses I need to talk.

Maybe I can make a really good film about the crimes against humanity committed by these "volunteers".

- From whom were these volunteer battalions formed?

- Mostly from Ukrainians. We can talk about this for a very long time. I will not brag, but I consider myself quite versed in this matter. There were three types of units that were formed under the auspices of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the National Guard and the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine. All of them were formed from volunteers, which is why they received such a common name - "good-natured" Although in their specificity and scope they were very different from each other.

The territorial defense battalions, which were formed under the auspices of the regional military registration and enlistment offices, consisted of only part of the volunteers. According to various estimates, from 30% to 50% of them were recruited as part of the general mobilization that took place in Ukraine in 2014 and 2015. But the battalions, which were formed under the auspices of the Ministry of Internal Affairs and under the auspices of the National Guard, were indeed 100% assembled from volunteers, largely from representatives of nationalist circles, from previously convicted persons, from activists who participated in the events on the Maidan.

There were battalions, which 80% consisted of such nationalist-minded people, and there were battalions that were formed from among the former employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, who for various reasons quit, but in the spring of 2014 felt that separatism in eastern Ukraine should be crushed with a red-hot iron.

And who came under the banner of these battalions.

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• © Vladimir Trefilov

- What do you think, if Ukraine left the residents of Donbass alone now, they would secede from Ukraine?

Or maybe some kind of reconciliation?

- No, I'm afraid that reconciliation is impossible.

The conflict has been going on for more than seven years.

On both sides people have grown up who do not even admit the thought of reconciliation.

The worst thing is that a new generation of people has grown up who have not seen anything else.

From early childhood they live in the informational attitude that they are enemies.

Well, as for the end of the war, you know, it will not end on the part of Kiev. Because otherwise, the Kiev authorities will have nothing to refer to, nothing to justify to their population for catastrophic failures in the economy, in housing and communal services, in politics.

Now you can divert attention to the fighting, to mourning events for the dead soldiers, to the next howls of some bloggers that our army is underfunded.

And under this information policy, you can powder your brains, excuse me for such a vulgar expression, to a common man in the street.

If there is no war, then how will they explain the catastrophic drop in living standards, the decline in the birth rate, and the colossal population decline?

Therefore, the war in this regard is also beneficial to the Kiev authorities.

Plus, don't forget that this is a way to make colossal money.

- Do you have an ultimate goal?

What changes would you like, including your activities, to achieve in Ukraine?

- No matter how pretentious it may sound, this is the elimination of the anti-popular regime that came to power in February 2014, and the punishment of all war criminals.

- Did you have hopes associated with Zelensky's coming to power?

- No, I had no hopes.

Although at that time it was interesting to observe those residents of Ukraine who hoped that with the arrival of a new young president, politics would change.

And his first steps were taken in this direction.

I even thought that perhaps I was mistaken about this person and he would be able to fix something.

But his further actions showed that the hopes were false.

And his actions now only exacerbated the situation.

As one person in Ukraine noted in the comments: "I never thought that I would say that Poroshenko was not the worst."

- The next elections in Ukraine are not far off, and Zelensky said that he would only go for one term.

Is there someone on the horizon that you see as the next president?

- Political predictions in Ukraine are a thankless thing. What the overseas owners say, it will be. Who, for example, can guarantee that Mr. Avakov, who left the post of head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, simply did not step into the shadows two years before the elections, so that he could actively participate in the election campaign a year later? In a year, his negative image will subside, which will be cleaned up by the hired image makers, and in a year he will join the struggle for the presidency. These are, of course, my assumptions, but why not?