(Essential Questions) Exclusive|Swedish "Polaris" Medal winner Li Zhiyi talks about mutual learning between China and the West: The beauty of Chinese characters is the same?
China News Service, Beijing, June 19, title: Li Zhiyi, the winner of the Swedish "Polaris" Medal, talks about mutual learning between China and the West: The beauty of Chinese characters is the same?
China News Agency reporter Shi Yuanfeng
Li Zhiyi accepted an exclusive interview with China News Agency "Question about East and West" at his home in Beijing.
Photo by Shi Yuanfeng, China News Service
Chinese characters, also known as Chinese characters, are the longest continuously used characters in the world, and they can be traced back to the oracle bone inscriptions in the Xia and Shang periods.
The Ministry of Education of China disclosed in a press conference held a few days ago that by the end of 2020, more than 180 countries and regions around the world have carried out Chinese education, more than 70 countries have included Chinese in their national education system, and the number of foreigners learning Chinese has exceeded 20 million.
Online Chinese education is booming and has benefited more than 2 million overseas Chinese learners.
Recently, the winner of the Swedish "Polaris" Medal and Strindberg Prize, Chinese translator Li Zhiyi, who has translated and published Swedish Sinologist Lin Xili's "The Kingdom of Chinese Characters" and "The Other World—Memory of China 1961-1962" accepted Sino-Singaporean An exclusive interview with "Dongxi Wenwen" of the agency, tells the beauty of Chinese characters and their unique role in mutual learning between Chinese and Western civilizations.
The summary of the interview record is as follows:
Reporter from China News Service: "The Kingdom of Chinese Characters" took eight years to complete, and it took two years to translate it into Chinese. As soon as it was published, it attracted attention in the West and was translated into more than a dozen languages. It was republished many times and was widely circulated. , Has become an essential book for Westerners to learn Chinese. In your opinion, what kind of unique charm does Chinese characters show between Chinese civilization and the world?
Li Zhiyi:
Chinese characters are the cultural carrier of the Chinese nation.
China's history has been recorded and interpreted from the Shuangdun engraving more than 7,000 years ago to the oracle bone inscriptions more than 3,000 years ago that can recognize more than a thousand characters, such as ancient myths, The Book of Songs, and the Songs of Chu. , Spring and Autumn and Warring States period, the hundreds of classics, Han Yuefu, Tang poetry, Song Ci, Yuan tune, etc.
Taoism, Confucianism, strategists, and Buddhism not only affect the entire Chinese culture, but also affect the culture of the world.
The intuitive impression of foreigners learning Chinese is the square character.
Lin Xili once said that what attracted her at first was that each Chinese character looked like a painting, and the Chinese characters contained the infinite mystery of Chinese calligraphy, which reflected the unique aesthetic appeal and cultural charm of the Chinese people.
Data map: "Chinese Translation of World Academic Master Books Series" with the reputation of "Rainbow Wall".
Photo courtesy of the Commercial Press
From the perspective of cultural dissemination, many foreigners are interested in works such as "A Dream of Red Mansions" and "The Analects of Confucius". Learning Chinese characters is precisely the basis-only by understanding the meaning of each Chinese character can you appreciate the Chinese culture reflected in literary works charm.
The creation of every Chinese character shape embodies the wisdom of the ancestors and is rooted in the soil of traditional culture.
Take the character "北" as an example. It actually evolved from the character "人". Two back-to-back "persons" form the character "北". The original meaning is the back and the back, but as time changes, the traceback is added. In the ancient tradition-Chinese dwellings and other places mostly sit from the north to the south, and then they have the meaning of "north".
It is worth mentioning that the "North" character also has its geographical basis in reality.
The cold Siberian winds and the yellow sandstorms on the Mongolian plateau in spring both come from the north.
People have to turn their backs to them in order to protect themselves.
The north is behind, it's cold.
So people face south, facing the sun.
Even the emperor always faced north and south when he was in power.
Therefore, if Chinese characters are ignored or forgotten, the long cultural history of the entire country and the entire world will be destroyed.
Chinese characters are not only an important embodiment of Chinese civilization, but also a bridge between China and the world.
With the establishment of the connection between the Chinese Pinyin and the English alphabet, this change has also facilitated mutual learning between Eastern and Western civilizations and cultural exchanges between China and foreign countries.
China News Agency reporter: You studied at the Department of Literature of Stockholm University, Sweden. You have translated many Swedish literary works and won the "Polaris Medal" awarded by the King of Sweden. What attracted you to study in Sweden in the first place, and then promote Swedish literature to Chinese readers ? In your opinion, will differences in language, writing, and culture affect mutual learning among civilizations?
Li Zhiyi: I
first learned Swedish out of curiosity. Later, I had the opportunity to study in Sweden and received many honors, but I didn't think I was great.
Li Zhiyi was awarded the Swedish "Polaris" Medal.
Photo by Shi Yuanfeng, China News Service
The impact of differences in language, writing, and culture should not be underestimated.
These three elements affect people's perception of things and the criteria for evaluating things.
The underlying logic is to shape people's way of thinking, which in turn affects all aspects including communication and communication.
At present, the Chinese people know more about the West than the Westerners know about China.
For example, in the recent report on "Xinjiang Cotton", the reason why China was misunderstood by the West was not only ideology, but also cultural differences, language (translation) differences, and their low understanding of China.
Because different countries have different interpretations of the same "symbols", we need to focus on the cultivation of talents with "east-west vision" so that more professional international communication professionals who understand different countries can resolve each other in a targeted and progressive manner Misunderstandings caused by differences in language, writing, and culture.
Reporter from China News Service: You and Professor Lin Xili expressed in the cooperation of "The Kingdom of Chinese Characters" that "Ancient Chinese culture is shared by mankind. Everyone has the right to study, interpret and appreciate it according to their own cultural traditions, regardless of His (her) national affiliation. Only in this way can it be more colorful, more suitable for dissemination and acceptance." In your opinion, what is the difference between Chinese civilization and the culture of other countries?
Li Zhiyi: The
world's culture is diversified, and "harmony without difference" makes the world show colorful charm.
But culture also has commonality.
Take the traditional Chinese idea of "Heaven and Man in One" as an example, it emphasizes the harmonious coexistence and coexistence of man and nature, and man and society.
Many Swedish scholars also agree with China's "Harmony of Man and Nature" and pursue the self-improvement and development of the country and nation.
Although cultural differences will affect people's perspectives on issues, it will not affect people's pursuit of "humanity", "truth" and "beauty".
Chinese culture can withstand research and interpretation. It is open and tolerant.
Taking "The Kingdom of Chinese Characters" as an example, as a Swedish scholar, Lin Xili composes her understanding of Chinese characters into a book, which has increased the popularity and reputation of Chinese characters in the world, and even became the Swedish business card for introducing China to the world.
Because of Chinese characters, a harmonious resonance between different cultures is realized.
In addition to the Chinese and Swedish editions, this book has also been translated into English, French, German, and Danish versions.
In the collision of different ideas, the Chinese character culture itself has become rich, which is also a manifestation of the confidence of Chinese culture.
It can be said that the interpretation and research of the culture of different countries is conducive to promoting the prosperity and development of world culture.
In the 1990s, Li Zhiyi (first from left) was accompanied by Sinologist Lin Xili (first from right) to the Swedish writer Astrid Lindgren's home as a guest.
China News Service Shi Yuanfeng (remake)
China News Agency reporter: The "Kingdom of Chinese Characters" and other works written by Professor Lin Xili have gained thousands of readers in Sweden and China. In 2016, he was awarded the "Chinese Book Special Contribution Award". In an interview with Chinese media, she once said that "Swedes love China, just like a tradition." As you know, why does she comment like this?
Li Zhiyi: The
Swedes have been interested in China for a long time.
For example, it was the Swedish explorer Sven Heding who first discovered the ancient country of Loulan, a historical site in Xinjiang, and it was also the Swedish geologist Anderson who opened the excavation at the Peking Man site in Zhoukoudian.
Chinese culture is extensive and profound, covering various fields such as literature, art, religion, and technology.
Many Chinese classics represented by "Tao De Jing", "A Dream of Red Mansions" and "Water Margin" have been translated into Swedish.
What impressed me was that Swedish officials once showed calligraphy works presented by Chinese friends on a local TV station and praised the exquisiteness of Chinese calligraphy.
Lin Xili, the author of "The Kingdom of Chinese Characters", had studied under the Swedish Sinologist Kobenhan.
Gao Benhan's "Research on Chinese Phonology" is an important material for academic research on Chinese dialects.
The book was prefaced by Fu Sinian, which was very influential and marked the beginning of the history of modern Chinese phonology.
He also conducted a detailed analysis of the two Chinese classics "Book of Songs" and "Book of Songs" and made a lot of annotations.
Therefore, it is a tradition for the Swedes to love China.
In academia, the research and learning of Chinese culture embodies a kind of inheritance.
China News Agency reporter: You once said that "The Kingdom of Chinese Characters" is a work about Chinese language and characters, but the content is related to the entire history of Chinese civilization. Facing the differences in history, culture and religious concepts between China and the West, what translation strategies have you adopted? Do you agree with the ultimate concept of "language and writing cannot be translated"?
Li Zhiyi: The
Chinese translation industry pursues faithfulness, expressiveness, and elegance, and most translations often stop at the first or second step.
It is basically impossible to fully display the original work in another language.
The so-called "untranslatable" refers to the difficulty of translation of a work.
On the one hand, it comes from the language itself, such as rhythm and rhetoric, which are difficult to convey.
In addition, if the translator does not know the author, it is often difficult to understand the true meaning of the article.
Nowadays, many excellent world literature works translated into Chinese, including some works that won the Nobel Prize in Literature, are not sold well in China, and they are directly related to translation.
Li Zhiyi accepted an exclusive interview with China News Agency "Question about East and West" at his home in Beijing.
Photo by Shi Yuanfeng, China News Service
Of course, this does not mean that the original work and the translation are in opposition.
In order to better express the original text, the translation process must be skillful.
First, the translator should feel the mood of the author when he writes.
When I was translating Lin Xili's work, the image of her vividly introducing China to the Swedes came to my mind.
When translating the previous sentence, I will figure out the content of her next sentence.
As the saying goes, the translation of literary works requires a living.
Second, we must go deep into the work to find the feeling of being on the scene.
When translating a work, you must bring yourself into the work, and empathize with the emotions and sorrows of the characters in the work.
Sometimes it is possible to translate the content "without detail", and sometimes it is necessary to consider how to use words to let the reader experience the beauty of the obscurity.
Third, translators must improve their professional level and understand the language habits of different countries.
The word "zhen" is the name of the ancient king in China, and it means "us" in Sweden.
Another example is when expressing the common concept of "booster" in Chinese in Swedish, a Swedish friend of mine translated "booster" into Swedish "pull a horse (in the off-hand or auxiliary position but like The main force is the same)", accurate and full of "Swedish flavor".
China News Agency reporter: Professor Lin Xili mentioned in the book "Another World-Memory of China 1961-1962" that she had experienced "from treating China as a scourge" to "understanding her better (China)" in China. , And then to the process of "finally falling in love with her desperately (China)". What do you think?
Li Zhiyi:
China is no longer what it used to be. It is no longer a country that has succumbed to gunfire. It has its own social system and cultural theory.
We must first run our own affairs well, establish self-confidence in road, theory, system, and culture, and show the Chinese style to the world with actions.
In addition, we must also learn to "make friends" in the world.
Taking the translation work as an example, in the process of translating "The Kingdom of Chinese Characters", we formed trust with each other through contact with Lin Xili.
There are many sinologists like her in the world. They should use their eyes to discover these contributors who build cultural exchanges, respect them, value them, and deepen Sweden and the world's understanding of China through them.
Reporter from China News Service: Western public opinion often looks at China with "colored glasses", or misinterprets or misinterprets it. In your opinion, how to solve this problem that affects exchanges and mutual learning among civilizations?
Li Zhiyi:
At present, China is in a relatively difficult situation in the world.
A few countries represented by the United States are deliberately deliberately distorting facts and blocking communication. (This) is their usual tactic.
They all tried every means to intervene in Xinjiang, Hong Kong, and Taiwan issues.
The actions of these countries go against the trend of the world.
The civilization history of mankind for thousands of years is produced in exchanges and dialogues.
It is impossible for them to interrupt this exchange, and the trend of exchanges and mutual learning between human civilizations is irresistible.
Today's China emphasizes mutual learning and exchanges between the East and the West, which conforms to the historical trend.
But to solve the communication problem, you can't just solve it overnight.
The first step is to clarify the question of "who am I" and "who are you".
Adhere to rationality, progress, and openness in academics.
China speaks of letting a hundred flowers blossom and a hundred schools of thought contend. When discussing academic issues, scholars of different cultural backgrounds can have their own opinions, and we don't have to force them.
Secondly, foreign exchanges require understanding and more practice.
Have the courage to communicate and take the initiative to communicate.
As I mentioned earlier, culture is diverse.
We must dare to speak our own views and express our own position. This is also a manifestation of Chinese values in the international public opinion field.
Reporter from China News Service: From the perspective of international communication, how should China tell its story to the West?
Li Zhiyi:
As a communicator, we must regard "objectivity" and "truth" as our criteria.
Write about what you see, not what you hear. What you hear is often untrue.
Chinese reporters must respect the facts and take a professional attitude to gain a foothold in the complex international public opinion field.
Second, learn to ask foreigners to tell Chinese stories to foreigners.
Because foreigners know more about foreigners' interests and tastes.
We should encourage foreign friends who understand Chinese and foreign experts who study Chinese culture, and ask them to tell Chinese stories well.
For example, in Singapore, local Chinese textbooks also quoted the content of "The Kingdom of Chinese Characters."
Finally, we must have a sense of "transformation".
For example, when disseminating to the Swedes, try to express the content in Sweden as much as possible, avoid preaching in an "expert tone", just like communicating with friends, in a more peaceful way of communication, in order to spread the voice of China to more, Farther away.
(Finish)
Li Zhiyi, born in 1940, is a native of Beijing.
Served as deputy editor-in-chief and translator of People's Pictorial.
In the 1960s, he studied at Beijing Foreign Studies University to study Swedish; in 1981, he received a Swedish government scholarship to study at the Department of Literature of Stockholm University.
The main translation works include "History of Swedish Literature", "Inside the Nobel Prize for Literature", "The Kingdom of Chinese Characters", "The Complete Library of Prose of Previous Nobel Prize Winners" (Nordic part), "Selected Foreign Folktales", and also translated The selected works of Swedish children's literature master Lindgren (9 volumes), including "Pippi Longstocking", "Naughty Bag Emil" and so on.
In 2004, he won the Special Contribution Award of the Swedish Academy; in June 2005, he was awarded the "First Class Knight Medal" in the "Polaris Order" series issued by King Gustav VI Adolf of Sweden; in October of the same year, he was awarded the "2005" Strindberg Prize."