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WORLD:
Ms. Riede, when did you suspect in your counseling center that the corona pandemic could be a new high phase for conspiracy ideologies?
Sabine Riede:
We noticed that relatively quickly.
The need for advice had already increased significantly in the previous years.
Conspiracy theories have picked up speed with the election of Donald Trump as US President.
Then it was about this QAnon movement.
With Corona, it then skyrocketed.
Sabine Riede, managing director of Sekten-Info NRW in Essen
Source: Photo reference: Sekten-Info NRW
WORLD:
How often do you come across such conspiracy ideologies?
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Riede:
Since May 2020 there has not been a day on which we do not have counseling sessions on the basis of conspiracy theories.
It is now constantly about corona deniers and "lateral thinkers".
In 2020, we had 160 out of 606 counseling cases on conspiracy theories.
That is four times the amount compared to the previous year.
This year we expect a further increase.
A consultation case comprises four to 20 discussions.
WORLD:
What problems do people report about?
Riede:
In general, it is about parents, partners, children suddenly claiming that Corona does not exist and that people should be controlled by the vaccinations.
Initially, it was people who had questions about their 60- to 70-year-old parents.
We got to hear: My mother had always believed in esotericism, but now she says that Corona was planned and that we should all be silenced if we should be chipped by vaccinations.
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Someone else said: My father says we don't need mouth and nose protection, there is no Corona, Bill Gates made it all up, he just wanted to sell his vaccines.
WORLD:
What impression did the caller make?
Riede:
They were often desperate because they couldn't get away with arguments, but made it even worse.
After the increased questions about the parents came the phase with the partnerships.
A woman told us that her husband was on short-time work and went crazy, he sat in front of the computer all day.
In the past he was always loving, understanding, works in the social profession, now he rejects mouth and nose protection, risking his job.
You don't even recognize him.
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WORLD:
How widespread do you think that is?
Riede:
The conspiracy theories have long since arrived in the middle of society.
We are in contact with other advice centers that tell us similar things.
There are surveys, for example by the Konrad Adenauer Foundation, according to which 30 percent of people believe such theories.
These are not only right-wing radicals, but also left-wing liberals and those who follow alternative healing methods and esoteric models of thought.
It is only a small step towards conspiracy theories.
WORLD:
You care about sects.
How did the callers get to your advice center?
Riede:
You can also find information on conspiracy theories on our homepage, and many callers find that those affected are as if they were brainwashed and sounded as if they were part of a sect.
WORLD:
Are the conspiracy theorists also a kind of sect?
Riede:
They are not organized like a sect.
This is not a large unified group.
But there are many parallels.
The adherents of conspiracy theories show behavior that we are used to from adherents of new religious movements.
It is very typical to divide the world into black and white.
There is a kind of immunization, which means that they no longer take note of criticism, do not accept any other information, and even become aggressive during discussions.
"This is about massive intimidation"
On the Internet, so-called lateral thinkers share a list with the names of politicians who have voted for the “Federal Emergency Brake” in the Bundestag.
What danger does this “death list” pose?
WELT reporter Daniel Franz with an assessment.
Source: WORLD / Daniel Franz
WORLD:
Do you give similar assistance as in the case of sects?
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Riede:
Yes, we advise relatives not to discuss.
Of course, if someone needs information, it should be given to them.
But most of those who turn to us say that they can no longer talk to those affected.
Then it's about not discussing, but strengthening the relationship emotionally, saying, that's your opinion, I have my opinion, but we've been so much more united for many years.
One should radiate calm and security, praise the other.
People are mostly susceptible to conspiracy theories if they are fearful and insecure, if they had previously felt that they could not achieve anything, or had lost control.
It is more useful to help on an emotional level.
Source: WORLD infographic
WORLD:
But that also means that those affected have to endure relatives, relatives, partners and children indulging in such conspiracy thoughts.
Riede:
Yes, that is very difficult, but you should definitely not argue in an arrogant tone.
You have to endure it, but you don't have to accept everything.
There are of course limits, for example with anti-Semitism, with racism, if violence is called for, then you have to react and clearly demarcate yourself.
You should contact advice centers - and if nothing else helps, ultimately initiate the separation if necessary.
Sometimes, as a counseling center, we also contact the authorities and ask for help when it comes to health problems, children or violence - but without giving a name, as we are bound by confidentiality.
WORLD:
How does someone get out of the conspiracy bubble again?
Riede:
It sounds so banal: reactivate old hobbies, look at old photo albums, remember good times, cook together, go for a walk together, so that the person can no longer invest as much time in these theories and feels comfortable.
Or in a counseling case, the wife was completely desperate because her husband no longer wanted to wear mouth and nose protection and threatened to lose his job.
During the conversations it emerged that he had been dissatisfied with his job for a long time, he is now in early retirement, she continues to work and together they go on weekend trips.
Conspiracy theories are no longer an issue.
Maintaining contact, caring for one another in an appreciative manner, these are important points that can help.
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WORLD:
In the pandemic, do people have more time to hang around on the Internet and get astray?
Riede:
Yes, that is true.
It is an amplifier for one's own dissatisfaction, which has arisen through the social restrictions and financial losses of the corona pandemic, then a culprit is sought, a scapegoat, it is difficult to come to terms with the fact that everything should be coincidence.
Meanwhile, more and more people are reporting who have turned away from conspiracy theories.
When we ask them what would have helped them, they probably say nothing at all.
They were blinded.
You had to understand it yourself first.
You noticed that it got worse and more aggressive.
They no longer wanted to participate in the call for violence.
The dropouts are then about helping them cope with their feelings of guilt.