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WORLD:
Mr. Kretschmer, last week you traveled with a delegation to Russia for several days and held high-level discussions there, including with Vladimir Putin.
There was also strong criticism of your stay.
Do you now have doubts yourself whether the trip was the right one?
Michael Kretschmer:
I was a member of the Bundestag's European Committee for many years and, and today, chairman of the Federal Council's Foreign Affairs Committee.
I've been to Ukraine and Belarus.
The trip to Moscow was planned for a long time and I am very impressed with what I experienced there.
The stay strengthened my conviction that it is right to talk to one another instead of about one another.
WORLD:
So classic détente policy?
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Kretschmer:
We Germans cannot be indifferent to Russia.
80 years ago the Wehrmacht invaded the Soviet Union.
We also have historical responsibility.
The more difficult the political situation, the more important it is to get joint projects off the ground.
WORLD:
You mean the delivery of Sputnik-V vaccine?
Kretschmer:
That too. If the delivery were to succeed, that would be a strong signal.
But I also mean the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline or joint cultural projects.
I was able to open an exhibition on freedom in Moscow, which was also supported by the Foreign Office.
It will then be shown in Dresden in October.
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WORLD:
Foreign Minister Heiko Maas (SPD) emphasized that you, as Saxon Prime Minister, traveled to Moscow “on your own responsibility”.
Can one infer from this that your trip was not discussed with the Foreign Office?
Kretschmer:
No.
This interpretation is wrong.
Such trips are meticulously prepared, there is no dissent about Berlin, but a common agenda.
We naturally discussed topics such as the conflict in Ukraine and the situation in Russian civil society.
WORLD:
What insights are you taking back to Dresden with you?
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Kretschmer: A
lot of things.
Take climate policy.
I was very impressed with the way Russia is working on building a certificate trading system after joining the Paris Climate Agreement.
That’s positive.
At the same time we saw the demonstrations critical of the government.
I met with representatives from NGOs, such as the human rights organization Memorial.
The encounters were very diverse.
WORLD:
The criticism of your trip mainly related to the timing.
The imprisoned regime critic Alexej Navalny was on a hunger strike and in danger of death, and there was a massive Russian troop deployment on the border with Ukraine.
You also spoke to President Putin on the phone.
How did the conversation go, what did you mention?
Kretschmer:
We would have met under normal circumstances, but the pandemic now only allowed one phone call.
For a personal encounter I would have had to go into quarantine two weeks in advance, that was not possible for me.
Still, I am grateful for the interview.
It also gave me the opportunity to address the issues of Navalny and Ukraine.
WORLD:
What did Putin say about that?
Kretschmer:
He said that Navalny was getting the medical care he needed.
The Russian Presidential Office then confirmed this again.
The conversation was important.
I don't understand the criticism of it.
Not talking to each other has never resolved a conflict or brought human relief.
So I'm glad we had the opportunity to do that.
WORLD:
Have you spoken to demonstrators on the street?
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Kretschmer:
No.
I saw a lot of young people at these demos.
But a face-to-face conversation would probably have done more harm than good.
Not for me, but for the Russian demonstrators.
Tens of thousands of people take to the streets for Navalny
All over Russia people take to the streets against the imprisonment of the Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny.
In addition to his release, they are demanding that the seriously ill person be given medical help.
Source: WORLD / Perdita Heise
WORLD:
You have now renewed your invitation to Putin to Dresden.
Has there already been an acceptance?
Kretschmer:
I have the impression that the Saxons would very much welcome a visit from Putin, which is why I have extended the invitation.
WORLD:
Would Putin then also hold talks in Berlin?
Kretschmer:
I am sure that the Federal Government will be interested in talking to the Russian President at any time. They also take place very often bilaterally. French President Emmanuel Macron, the Chancellor and Putin recently spoke on the phone about the Sputnik V vaccine. There is no radio silence between Berlin and Moscow. There is the concept of ambiguity. The reality of politics is not black or white, is it?
We are dealing with a country that restricts the freedom of its citizens.
It has great military power.
Russia is geographically close to us.
We have economic ties with Russia.
We will not be able to fight climate change without Russia.
We have to give this country the opportunity to participate economically.
If we want to strengthen civil liberties there, we have to stay in dialogue.
I don't see any alternative to dialogue at all levels.
WORLD:
Is there actually a special East German view of Russia?
Kretschmer:
Well, the most intensive contact to Moscow is Gerhard Schröder (SPD), from Lower Saxony.
The eastern German federal states are geographically closer to Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary and Russia, but that is certainly not the decisive point.
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WORLD:
When it comes to the dismantling of sanctions, including on the subject of Sputnik V, the East German minister-presidents usually speak up, cross-party.
Is that a late GDR reflex?
Kretschmer:
No, I don't believe in the thesis at all.
The Prime Minister of Baden-Württemberg, Winfried Kretschmann (Greens) and the Prime Minister of North Rhine-Westphalia, Armin Laschet (CDU), have their eyes on the good neighbors with France and the Benelux countries.
As the Prime Minister of Saxony, I also see my job as looking to the east and keeping in touch there.
So see that the other heads of government of the eastern German states.
We mean it very seriously.
And we make ourselves heard - like with a trip to Moscow.
It takes politicians who look after our Eastern European neighbors and develop their own expertise.
WORLD:
Mr. Kretschmer, while you were in Moscow, another guerrilla war was going on in Germany, namely that between the CDU and the CSU.
Do you have the impression that the Union is now gathering behind the candidate for Chancellor Laschet?
Kretschmer:
It is understandable that the supporters of Markus Söder (CSU) were disappointed.
But we will only win the Bundestag election if the Union demonstrates unity.
Now we have to work on the joint government program.
WORLD: Armin
Laschet has now brought Friedrich Merz into his election campaign team and has thus also complied with a request from the CDU in Saxony-Anhalt.
Votes will be held there on June 6th and postal votes will begin next week.
In the latest survey, the CDU was only 26 percent.
Are you worried about your neighboring country?
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Kretschmer:
With Reiner Haselhoff, Saxony-Anhalt has a clever state father and is supported by Armin Laschet as best he can in the election campaign.
The fact that Friedrich Merz and Armin Laschet are now visibly working together is a strong political and human sign.
WORLD:
When you talk to leading CDU politicians about the strength of the Greens, it is often said: It will be over again by the Bundestag election.
According to the motto: the more is vaccinated, the more the Union recovers.
Do you believe in this automatism?
Kretschmer:
There is no automatism this year.
There is hard work ahead of us.
In order to win, you need a good team and convincing content offers.
We must put the Greens politically and make it clear that the politics of this party would lead to less economic dynamism.
WORLD:
The Greens are calling for a moratorium on Nord Stream 2.
Kretschmer:
I don't believe in questioning international treaties.
In terms of foreign policy, that would be irresponsible and the opposite of German reliability.
There is huge potential for conflict behind this.
Anyone who torpedoes this major project must be clear about the consequences.
A cancellation of Nord Stream 2 would push Russia further into the arms of China, away from Europe. A Russia that cooperates less and less with the EU would certainly not become more reliable. And certainly not more democratic.