(Essential questions) French Sinologist Mei Qianli: How does China interact with the world through mutual learning from civilizations?

  China News Service, Beijing, April 12th, title: French Sinologist Mei Qianli: Civilizations learn from each other, how does China dialogue with the world?

  China News Agency reporter Wan Shuyan


Thierry Meynard, French, born in 1963, received a PhD in Chinese philosophy from Peking University in 2003.

From 2004 to 2006, he was a lecturer at Fudaham University in New York City, USA.

Joined the Macau Ricci Institute in 2006.

He is currently the professor of the Department of Philosophy of Sun Yat-sen University, and the deputy curator of the Western Learning East China Archives of Sun Yat-sen University.

He mainly studies the exchange of Chinese and Western thoughts, Western classical philosophy, and contemporary Neo-Confucianism. So far, he has published more than 10 Chinese and English monographs, and published more than 40 papers in domestic and foreign journals.

  Both Chinese and Western civilizations have thousands of years of history. In the long history, the exchanges and mutual learning of civilizations have never stopped.

Today's world is in the era of globalization and informationization, but there are still many gaps, misunderstandings and contradictions between China and the West.

  The world is undergoing major changes unseen in a century. How should China engage in dialogue with the world and further strengthen mutual learning among civilizations?

French Sinologist, Professor of the Department of Philosophy at Sun Yat-sen University, and Deputy Curator of Sun Yat-Sen University's Western Studies and Eastern Literature Museum, Thierry Meynard recently accepted an exclusive interview with China News Service on "Questions of East and West" for an in-depth interpretation.

  Excerpts from the interview are as follows:

Reporter from China News Service: You have written many books or essays related to China, such as "China in the Documents of European Missionaries", "The Encounter of Chinese and Western Ethics in the Late Ming Dynasty", and "The First Translation of The Analects in Europe".

In your opinion, what makes the Chinese civilization resonate with the world and learn from each other?

Mei Qianli:

The Ancient Silk Road, which began in the Western Han Dynasty in China and the Roman Empire, was one of the earliest windows of cultural exchanges between China and the West.

However, the exchanges at that time were not direct exchanges of personnel. There were fewer personnel exchanges and more of the circulation of goods. Merchants brought Chinese silk, tea, copper and ironware, porcelain, etc. to Central Asia, and then to the Roman Empire and Western leather goods. , Medicinal materials, spices, etc. spread to the East, thus indirectly carried out cultural exchanges.

  Many Europeans came to the East in the 13th century. The most famous Italian was Marco Polo. He had been to Yuan Dadu (the predecessor of Beijing), the capital of the Yuan Dynasty, but the scope and influence of exchanges at that time were not particularly large.

  Large-scale exchanges between China and the West began in the 16th century. The Portuguese led a merchant fleet to Macau. Missionaries followed and entered the mainland of China. This opened the channel for cultural exchanges between China and the West. Not interrupted.

  At that time, the three religions of "Confucianism, Buddhism and Taoism" were united, and China ushered in the opening of cultural thoughts.

Many Westerners came to China. The most representative one was the missionary Matteo Ricci. He arrived in Macau in 1582 (the tenth year of Wanli) and spent more than 10 years in Guangdong. In order to adapt to the Chinese environment, he put on a robe, but The mission was not successful during this period.

In 1595, Matteo Ricci went to Nanchang, Jiangxi, where he lived for 3 years and changed to wear Confucian clothing. He communicated with the local scholar-bureaucrats. Instead of indoctrinating from the religious level, he communicated from the cultural aspect. Matteo gradually changed from a missionary to a student. , Study Chinese culture, study Confucian classics four books and five classics.

  Matteo Ricci spent a long time understanding Chinese culture.

In 1601, Matteo Ricci came to Beijing and continued to make friends with scholar-officials. While enhancing Chinese cultural knowledge, he began to spread Christianity and compile books, including "Twenty-Five Words" written in Chinese, and received many Chinese intellectuals. Respect.

  In the process, Eastern and Western cultures began to merge.

For example, Matteo Ricci initially prohibited Chinese Christians from offering sacrifices to ancestors and ancestors, thinking that this conflicted with Christian doctrine.

But he knows that if this contradiction is not resolved, he will not be able to take root in China.

In 1605, he changed his mind and began to allow Chinese Christians to worship.

This is a very big change.

Since then, the Chinese have gradually changed their attitudes.

During this process, Ricci gradually understood Chinese culture, and Western religions began to merge with Chinese culture. This story is very meaningful.

  The communication between China and the West is very complicated.

There is both a space dimension and a time dimension. Today, when we look at cultural exchanges between China and the West, we must have such a vision.

The exchanges between China and the West have a process from encounters, to understanding, to deepening understanding.

Data map: Tourists visit the theme exhibition of Matteo Ricci.

Photo by Huang Yaohui issued by China News Service

China News Agency reporter: You said at the Yuelu Summit Forum of the Fourth Global Chinese Sinology Ceremony held last year, "The encounter between Chinese and Western cultures is still in its preliminary stage."

Why is this evaluation?

Mei Qianli:

Indeed, Chinese and Western cultures have a history of several thousand years, but their relatively in-depth exchanges only last for 400 years, of which only 150 years of genuine frequent exchanges. This means that the encounter between Chinese and Western cultures is still in its infancy.

  We cannot deny that the past exchanges have laid a good foundation, but the understanding between China and the West is still relatively superficial. I believe that there will be more in-depth exchanges and mutual learning between Chinese and Western civilizations in the future.

  Although there are some challenges between China and the West, I am still optimistic that the two sides will overcome these difficulties and have a deeper understanding of each other through dialogue, exchanges, and communication.

Today we cannot give up dialogue, we must maintain an open mind and create new channels of communication.

Only an open civilization has a better future.

Data map: A girl in Hanfu admires flowers in the park.

Photo by China News Agency reporter Du Yang

Reporter from China News Service: After you served as the deputy curator of the Archives of Western Learning at Sun Yat-Sen University, from your perspective as a sinologist, what impact has "Western Learning to the East" have on China?

So what impact has "Eastern learning and Western learning" had on Europe?

Mei Qianli:

"Western learning to the east" has had a great impact on China's modernization process.

The biggest influence from the West on China is education.

Education in ancient China was biased towards theoretical teaching, reading ancient books such as the "Four Books and Five Classics".

Western learning has made Chinese education more modern and international, and education more specific. With sub-disciplines, vocational education has cultivated a large number of skilled talents.

In the 19th century, Western missionaries founded a group of church girls' schools in China, which had a profound influence on the education of women in modern China.

  Secondly, Western learning has also influenced China’s “individualism” belief. From the Republic of China period to the present, China has paid more and more attention to individual subjectivity and social value in the process of modernization. Among them, the promotion of women’s liberation has enabled Chinese women to play more and more in various fields. The bigger the role.

  The "Western Transmission of Middle School" also had a profound impact in Europe.

Starting in the 16th century, many businessmen came to Asia from Europe to do business, and came to China with missionaries. Apart from material reasons, I think the West was also eager to understand different civilizations.

In the process of preaching, they discovered that each civilization has its own cultural value.

Missionaries such as Matteo Ricci recognized Chinese culture very much and wrote many books describing China, which had a great influence after being published in Europe.

  For the first time, Europe recognized the pluralism of civilization.

Europe originally regarded itself as the center of civilization. Through the reports and books of missionaries, they discovered that there was still Chinese civilization in the East. Later, they gradually accepted and understood that there were several civilizations in the world.

  The Chinese imperial examination system had an important influence on the West.

From the Middle Ages to the 17th century, European officials were mostly obtained through aristocratic hereditary system or money trading.

Missionaries such as Cruz, Matteo Ricci, and Zeng Dezhao discovered that China has a relatively complete management model and a fair examination system. They introduced the Chinese imperial examination system to the West and provided a reference for the establishment of the Western civil service examination system. This is the process of Western modernization. Very important element in the

  In addition, some words in English also originate from China. For example, although the word “mandarin” is derived from the Portuguese “mandarim”, “mandarim” is a word created in Portuguese to indicate “officials and scholar-officials” during the Qing Dynasty. Refers to "Chinese Mandarin".

  During the Ming and Qing Dynasties, Confucianism began to spread to Europe.

The Spanish missionary Luo Mingjian first translated Confucian classics such as "University", "The Doctrine of the Mean" and "The Analects" into Spanish in 1590, and presented it to King Philip II of Spain, showing that China is not a barbaric nation and has a very early civilization. And to oppose Spain to send troops from Manila, the Philippines to conquer China.

  Later, many ancient Chinese classics were translated and published in Europe, which played a great role in the study of Chinese culture by Europeans.

Many modern and contemporary Chinese literary works have also received attention in Europe and have been translated into English, French, German, Spanish, etc. and published.

Chinese painting, calligraphy, costumes and other arts are also loved by many people in Europe.

Data map: Foreign youths play Chinese folk music and feel the charm of Chinese culture.

Photo by China News Agency reporter Zhang Yu

China News Agency reporter: What are the commonalities in Chinese and Western cultures?

Faced with differences in language, religion, and customs, how does China talk to the world and how do you solve the problems?

Mei Qianli:

The commonalities of Chinese and Western cultures are as follows:

  The first is humanism.

Both Chinese and Western cultures have strong humanism and humanistic traditions, including philosophy, literature, education, art and other cultural categories. They have a deep understanding of the nature of human beings. Both Chinese and Western cultures are not limited to the material world and instinctive desires, but have a view of the universe.

Confucianism, Buddhism, and Taoism have a deep understanding of people, which echoes Western humanism.

  The second is a rational perspective.

At the beginning of the cultural exchanges between China and the West, it was mainly exchanges based on rationality. The missionaries integrated Western Aristotelianism with Neo-Confucianism in the Song and Ming Dynasties.

The Neo-Confucianism of the Song and Ming Dynasties and the Four Books and the Five Classics are all expounded from a rational perspective. It is recorded from a rational perspective.

This is similar to Western culture. Christianity was born in ancient Greece. Through Paul, Athanasius, Augustine and other godfathers, religion was turned into a science: theology is also an interpretation of religion from a rational perspective.

  The third is spiritual civilization.

This can transcend the latitude of time and space.

For example, speaking of "God" in China will immediately think of "God" (Jehovah) in the West.

But in fact, the word "God" is not the original creation of Christianity. It has been in China since ancient times, and it is recorded in the Four Books and Five Classics.

There is a "God" in China and a "God" in the West, and the myths and stories of China and the West have similarities.

  There are many differences between Chinese and Western cultures. The key is how we view the differences.

Differences become obstacles that need to be resolved. At the same time, differences also make the world richer and more diverse, and more emphasis on communication.

For example, language differences can open a window to another civilization by learning languages, discovering differences in the process, and enriching one's thoughts and life.

  How does China talk to the world?

I think that the Chinese people have a good understanding of the West, but the West does not have that deep understanding of China, nor do they have so many opportunities.

The most important thing for mutual learning among civilizations is interpersonal communication, which can promote mutual understanding and cognition and avoid conflicts, which is very important.

  We need more international exchanges.

Not only do they need to read, watch TV, and browse media information, but Chinese and Westerners also need to travel to each other's land to travel, study, work, and live, and make more friends with each other.

What you see intuitively is completely different from what you imagined indirectly. It may be easier to change your worldview through personal experience.

  I hope that more Westerners will learn Chinese, and more Chinese will learn foreign languages. Not only English, but also other foreign languages ​​such as French, Spanish, Arabic, etc. should be learned.

In the era of globalization, learning a foreign language is probably not enough, and English cannot understand the whole world.

Data map: Russian girls are learning Chinese.

Photo by China News Agency reporter Zhang Yao

Reporter from China News Service: The world today is in the era of globalization. Countries in the world have close contacts and seek common development and win-win. Is it appropriate to use the concept of "East and West" to describe the relationship between China and developed countries?

Mei Qianli:

We are living in the era of globalization. It is indeed not suitable to use "East" and "West" to express it. The modern concept of the country has been developed since the 19th century and is a relatively new concept.

Marx once criticized nationalism. He believed that the borders of countries should be broken and an international space should be established.

  In today's world, the country is not the only person to belong to.

Now there are many multinational companies, cultural exchange activities, global sports events, and borderless music and art, all of which transcend the scope of the country and can provide the public with a sense of belonging.

  I believe that in the future, through the Internet, international travel, and population mobility, "East" and "West" will be everywhere, "You are in me, and you are in me."

People are the most important carrier. In the future, more Westerners will be influenced by Eastern culture, and more Easterners will be influenced by Western culture, forming pluralism.

However, if pluralism is to succeed, it must not only do a good job in cultural education, but also need to break through the concept of nationalism.

  I think there will be more exchanges and population movements in the future. Some people may live in one country for a period of time and change to another country for work or other reasons.

There are many Chinese in Europe and the United States, and many Westerners are willing to work and live in China. This situation will increase.

Data map: China-Europe train.

Photo by China News Agency reporter Zheng Ziyan

China News Agency reporter: Western public opinion often wears "colored glasses" to look at China, misinterpreting, misunderstanding, and even fabricating facts.

In your opinion, why does the West always misunderstand China?

How to solve this problem that affects the exchange and mutual learning of civilizations?

What are the methods and steps?

Mei Qianli: The

fundamental reason is that the political systems of the two sides are different and their understanding of issues such as democracy and human rights are different.

There are many voices about China in the West. Misinterpreting certain extreme claims about China is just a voice and cannot be generalized.

For example, remarks that discredit Xinjiang’s “genocide” are very serious and absurd. Xinjiang cannot be viewed in terms of “Nazism” in the 20th century. It is completely different.

  Now the Western system is also encountering many difficult problems. Multiculturalism and pluralism have brought some conflicts in the West. In the United States and Europe, racial discrimination has occurred between different cultures, religions, ethnicities, and skin colors.

Discrimination is increasing recently. In the United States, there are white police officers who abuse blacks and blacks abuse Asians.

The reasons for these phenomena are complex. Western society should help these minorities get a good education and find good job opportunities.

  China must also make more efforts to establish a good national image, and explain to the West that China’s one-party governance also has human rights and democracy, allowing different voices and concepts, and will not move towards extremism. The West responds to the Chinese system’s Advantages give more understanding and acceptance.

  In today's world, different regions and different cultures have different expressions of values. We must tolerate each other, and we cannot turn Western values ​​into values ​​of other civilizations.

No culture is absolutely good. We must communicate, dialogue, and reflect on each other, give up cultural hegemony, and create a better future.

  I hope there will be more exchanges in the future to break through such limitations.

In addition to official channels between countries, people-to-people exchanges are more effective.

China and the West should further open up interpersonal communication, especially to allow more young people to communicate, who will be the main force in promoting East-West relations in the future.

(Finish)