- What is the legacy of the previous authorities and the problems in the field of international relations that the new government faced?
- Montenegro's foreign policy priorities were established in 2006, when we renewed our independence, maybe even earlier.
Among them, of course, the "European perspective" of Montenegro - membership in the European Union, a reliable alliance within NATO, stable cooperation with other countries in the region.
And also, undoubtedly, the establishment of cooperation with key world players and great powers, among which Russia, of course, takes its rightful place.
On August 30 last year, we held elections, and for the first time in thirty years the government changed.
The leaders of the winning coalition - Prime Minister Zdravko Krivokapic, Speaker of Parliament Aleksa Becic and Deputy Prime Minister Dritan Abazovich signed an agreement according to which the country's foreign policy will not change.
Accordingly, EU membership remains a top priority.
We have fully agreed with the European Union our course in the field of foreign policy and security.
And so we have introduced restrictive measures, which we do not consider anti-Russian, since they do not affect the citizens of the Russian Federation, but are of an individual nature.
We do not consider them unfriendly and aggressive also because the same restrictions have been imposed on Turkey, our friend and NATO ally.
That is, we join the European sanctions not because we have something against Russia, Turkey or some other state, but only because EU membership is a priority for us.
I would like to note that recently relations between the Russian Federation and Montenegro were in a certain stagnation, and the previous government issued anti-Russian rhetoric.
We want to change this narrative and want to cooperate with Russia in all areas of common interest - but in a way that does not conflict with our responsibility to coordinate our policies with the West.
We could cooperate in the fields of tourism, economy, aviation, culture, education and so on.
I will add that our government is ready to resume political dialogue with the Russian Federation in precisely the areas that the Prime Minister of Montenegro and I discussed recently in a telephone conversation with the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation Sergei Lavrov.
Minister of Foreign Affairs of Montenegro Djordje Radulovic
© Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Montenegro
- You claim that you are following the EU policy - but other countries of the region are on the way to the union, which, however, do not impose sanctions against Russia. Even NATO member Macedonia refuses to do so yet. And Prime Minister Krivokapich said in an interview: “The current situation is absurd: imagine that you, as a small state, are imposing sanctions against such a huge one as Russia. Such decisions are not guided by the interests of citizens, but "descend" to us from other, very interesting areas. "
- This is a good question, and I'm glad you asked me, because I love to debunk myths.
Earlier I headed the Directorate of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for the European Union and I can call myself a pretty good expert on the processes related to the EU.
Yes, Macedonia, being a NATO member, really did not impose sanctions against Russia.
Do you know why?
Because it has not yet started negotiations on EU membership, and just has to start them.
We've been running them for eight years.
That makes all the difference.
- But Macedonia has long followed the path of European integration and fulfills all the other requirements of Brussels ...
- I talked with Macedonian colleagues.
Macedonia's compliance with all EU measures is 95%.
The only thing that has not yet been agreed upon, but agree on when negotiations will begin, is the obligation to pursue a common foreign and security policy of the European Union.
You know, I would not use the expression "sanction" - it sounds like a punishment.
After all, the sanctions apply to the whole people.
In this case, these are restrictive measures that have been introduced against Russia, and they refer to individuals and companies that are associated with the situation in Ukraine.
That is, an ordinary Russian citizen is not under the sanctions of Montenegro.
- The Prime Minister also said that Montenegro "cannot afford the luxury" of imposing sanctions against Russia. At the same time, according to sociological
studies
from 2016, less than 10% of citizens support anti-Russian sanctions.
How would you comment on this?
- I believe that no one in the world is happy that they should impose sanctions against someone.
If you ask the average Montenegrin citizen whether he supports the imposition of sanctions against someone, he will, of course, answer you “no”.
But if you ask him or the absolute majority of citizens in which direction the country should move, then 80% will say that it is necessary to join the European Union.
In other words: are we happy that we introduced these sanctions?
Not.
Do we want to be at enmity with anyone in the world?
In no case.
I think no one in Europe is happy because of such relations that have now developed between the EU and the Russian Federation.
However, if we share values with the European Union, where not only me, but also 80% of Montenegrin citizens want to be - in this case, we must take the same risks, in the same way receive benefits and incur losses from everything that happens (according to sociological research, published last fall by the NATO Foundation, 54% of Montenegrins have a positive attitude towards the EU -
RT
).
But just as the great and strong Russia has an absolutely legitimate right to seek its happiness in global politics - so small, not so strong Montenegro and its people have the right to seek happiness in this world.
And we are looking for our happiness in the West.
I repeat: these sanctions are not an unfriendly act.
- To summarize: at the moment, Podgorica does not have a mechanism to lift or mitigate sanctions against Russia?
- I will explain how restrictive measures are introduced.
The Council of the European Union decides to extend the restrictions against Russia on a specific issue.
And he addresses the candidate countries: “Do you want to join these measures?
If so, then you have a deadline until such and such a date this month. "
That is, this is not the UN, you cannot "abstain" here.
You can only join or not join.
Can we not join?
Of course we can.
But, as an extremely Europhile country, we must understand - will it be in our strategic interests?
I think no.
If you look at the indicators of trade, then, according to the latest data (omit 2020, since it is unrepresentative due to the pandemic) in 2019, the turnover between the European Union and Montenegro was € 1.4 billion, and with the Russian Federation - only € 11 million. One hundred times less.
So, did someone put a foot on our neck?
Not.
We remain an independent country and plan to preserve our sovereignty, but the question is where our people want to move in principle.
- If we talk about strategic priorities - Montenegro is highly dependent on tourism, and almost every third guest comes to you from Russia, this is a huge income for the budget. But do you expect Moscow to not restrict the flow of tourists in response, despite the fact that Podgorica will maintain anti-Russian sanctions?
- Look what measures were introduced against the Russian Federation and what retaliatory measures it introduced against Montenegro.
They do not affect tourism.
Tourists in Montenegro
Reuters
© Stevo Vasiljevic
Statistics can tell a lot.
If my memory serves me, in 2014, when Montenegro first joined the sanctions (and in 2012 we began negotiations on accession to the EU and pledged to follow a common course in the field of foreign policy and security), there were about 320 thousand Russian tourists, and five years later this figure rose to 380 thousand.
Why has the number of Russian tourists only increased over the five years of following the EU foreign policy course?
Because, in my deep conviction, Russian citizens understand that Montenegro has nothing against them, that all this refers only to restraining certain individuals who have one or another involvement in the events in Ukraine.
I repeat: the current government does not want to have an anti-Russian narrative.
- So, the new leadership differs from the previous one only by its unwillingness to have an anti-Russian narrative?
- The previous government, in my opinion, acted erroneously in relation to the Russian Federation.
In my humble opinion, they presented sanctions, excuse me, restrictive measures against Russia as punishment for the tensions between Podgorica and Moscow.
But this is the wrong approach.
Restrictions against Russia are introduced not because we are anti-Russian, but because we are pro-European.
I speak Russian, my sons have Russian names - Aleksey and Pavel, but at the same time I have no dilemma in which direction my country should move.
So the problem was the narrative.
You cannot maintain good relations with the Russian Federation, while speaking out with an anti-Russian narrative that denounces Moscow as some kind of evil and the source of all the troubles of Montenegro.
Again, let me make an expert observation: a number of other EU countries with which Russia maintains good relations and works well - like Croatia, Slovenia, Bulgaria, Hungary - all of them, without exception, join restrictive measures.
And I think that Montenegro deserves an identical approach from Russia.
- What specific areas then, in your opinion, remain for the development of cooperation with Russia?
- For example, the tourism industry.
You were absolutely right when you said that about a third of tourists to Montenegro come from the Russian Federation.
Russians like Montenegro and Montenegrins because of the proximity of languages, traditions, culture, and so on.
I must mention that this year we celebrate 15 years of the establishment of diplomatic relations between independent Montenegro and the Russian Federation, as well as, no less important, 310 years of the establishment of the first political contacts between our countries.
I think this anniversary of the centuries-old traditional relationship could be celebrated with a wonderful cultural event.
So, despite our clear foreign policy priorities, we are ready to develop constructive cooperation with Russia in all areas of mutual interest.
Another area where we could cooperate is to strengthen the contractual and legal framework between the two countries.
And I believe that a visit, including mine, to Russia could take place to commemorate the mentioned anniversary.
So there is definitely room for developing relations in tourism, air travel, culture, economics, education and medicine.
- Is there a risk that the thaw in relations between Podgorica and Moscow and the development of cooperation with Russia, its investments in Montenegro will be perceived by the West as "expansion of Russian influence"?
- I don’t know a single country in the EU that would not cooperate with Russia.
Does Russia have its own interests in the Balkans?
Probably yes.
But, I repeat, the idea of European integration in Montenegro is so dominant that our government does not perceive the influence of any third party as something that can lead us astray.
As for cooperation, you know very well that a number of EU member states cooperate very closely with Russia.
Therefore, the same principle should apply to Montenegro, shouldn't it?
- How is the fight against the coronavirus epidemic in Montenegro progressing?
- The situation in the country is not easy.
It was very difficult when the new government came to power.
We received a batch of vaccines from Russia, the first 10 thousand doses out of the stipulated 50 thousand. And, taking this opportunity, I would like to express my gratitude to the Russian Federation for its help in combating the pandemic - after all, despite certain political relations between individual states, we are against the virus all must fight together.
The pandemic does not know geopolitics.
People are dying in Russia, and in Montenegro, and in France, and in the USA, Britain, Germany - everywhere.
Our plan is to have 70% of the population with immunity by the beginning of the season, which includes both those vaccinated against coronavirus and those who have had it.
- Recently, in an interview, the Minister of Health of Montenegro said that Podgorica has so far ordered a total of 250 thousand doses of the Sputnik
V
vaccine
, which can cover a significant part of the country's needs for the drug.
What is the significance of the Russian vaccine for normalizing the situation and restoring the country's economy?
- We are indeed conducting intensive negotiations with the Russian side in order to purchase the largest possible amount of vaccines.
At the same time, we are in touch with China, which provided us with about 30 thousand doses of Sinopharm vaccines.
The European Union will also help us.
In addition, Montenegro, through the UN COVAX initiative, ordered 250 thousand doses of the drug.
If we add up all the vaccines that we potentially need to receive, then COVID-19 in Montenegro will be completely eradicated.
Vaccination against coronavirus in Montenegro
© REUTERS / Stevo Vasiljevic
- Have you had to face criticism from the West in connection with the purchase of the Russian vaccine, which is often called there "the Kremlin's hybrid weapon"?
- I, as the Minister of Foreign Affairs, of course know the term "vaccine diplomacy".
But I have not yet heard from anyone that it is impossible to buy a Russian vaccine for one reason or another.
I would not like to name specific states, but we know very well that individual European countries use the Russian vaccine to immunize their citizens.
So, back to my original thesis - COVID-19 does not know geopolitics.
We, as a responsible government, and I, as foreign minister, of course, negotiated the purchase of vaccines with our European friends, the PRC, the Russian Federation, and the UK (about AstraZeneca).
At the moment, vaccines are probably the most sought-after product in the world.
I would also like to expose the myth that the European Union exerts some kind of pressure on some countries so that they in no case buy Russian vaccines and thus fall under the influence of the Russian Federation.
I have seen these statements in the media.
I can say that recently I was at a meeting in NATO, where all the foreign ministers of the countries of the alliance were present.
And before that, I had a large number of bilateral meetings and telephone conversations - with the German minister, and with the Slovak, and with the Hungarian - and no one said a word about it.
There are only 600 thousand of us in Montenegro, and we, as a government, care about the health of our citizens.
Our partners from Europe are well aware of this.
Why do they understand?
For the simple reason that they themselves use Russian vaccines.
On the streets of Podgorica
© REUTERS / Stevo Vasiljevic
- Recently, the vice-speaker of the Assembly of Montenegro, Strahinya Bulayich, announced the need to renew friendly relations with Russia and announced the formation of friendship groups with the Russian State Duma. What is the government's attitude to this initiative?
- The Parliament of Montenegro is a separate body, and the government, being the executive branch of power, cannot influence it in any way in this matter.
As far as I know, we previously had a friendship group with Russia, but in the last decade our relations have not been at the proper level.
If this initiative is implemented, I personally have nothing against it.
- A number of countries are creating a "Balkan mini-Schengen". Montenegro has not yet joined this project. Why?
- At the moment, our country is participating in more than 30 regional initiatives.
When “mini-Schengen” just appeared, we began to understand what its essence is and what advantages it provides, whether it duplicates initiatives already existing in the region.
In parallel with it, the Berlin Process was launched - a project initiative proposed by Chancellor Merkel in 2014 with the aim of strengthening ties within the region through the freedom of movement of goods and citizens, the development of economic ties, the promotion of the environmental agenda, and so on.
Last fall, an action plan for a joint regional market was prepared, which includes all the freedoms that are available under the "mini-Schengen", plus the additional benefits of the fact that this market unites six states.
And the strongest argument in favor of the Berlin process is that it is fully supported by the EU.
Compared to it, "mini-Schengen" provides a lower level of cooperation and integration.
Therefore, at this stage, Montenegro simply does not need it.
- What success has Montenegro achieved on the path of European integration? Are you not afraid of the problems associated with toughening the criteria for joining the EU and a slowdown in the expansion of the union as a whole? What is your forecast for joining the European Union?
- Podgorica has been negotiating with the European Union for eight years.
Moreover, we started them under more stringent criteria than we were before.
Of course, we also accepted the new methodology put forward by France and other countries.
Why?
Because we have nothing to hide - we have no shadow agenda and backup plans.
We are sincere both with our European partners and with Russia.
Anywhere in the world I will say the same thing: the idea of European integration for Montenegro has no alternative.
Has there been some slowdown in the EU enlargement process?
Occurred.
Yes, there are stricter guidelines for entry.
And the “merit-based” approach (“in accordance with the fulfilled criteria” -
RT
) is quite fair.
Therefore, we decided to give a chance to this methodology, within the framework of which negotiations are being conducted on thematic blocks.
As for the date of entry - I would not bet.
I will just recall the words of the European Commissioner (for Neighborhood and Enlargement. -
RT
) Oliver Varkheli, who said that he would like at least one of the candidate countries to become an EU member before the end of the mission's mandate.
And with all my heart I would like it to be Montenegro.