• Coronavirus: Europe facing its great challenge: resolution or irrelevance

Pedro Sánchez (Madrid, 1972) became secretary general of the Socialist Party in 2014, resigned as leader and deputy for not supporting the right-wing government, toured the autonomies with his car -a Peugeot 407-, reconquered the leadership of the party in the primary and brought down the right-wing Executive, becoming the head of the Spanish government on June 2, 2018. He has won two elections, although none with an absolute majority. Now he has had to deal with an emergency of almost 30,000 deaths. This with Corriere is his first interview with a foreign medium since the start of the pandemic. The appointment is at the Palacio de La Moncloa, where Prime Minister Giuseppe Contearrives today. We are in the room that collects the works of Antoni Tàpies, the Catalan painter. There are five meters between the two chairs: Pedro Sánchez can take off his mask and speak in a low voice.

President, Spain and Italy are among the most affected countries. In your opinion, how have Spaniards and Italians reacted? With discipline, resistance and a spirit of victory. We suffered a very severe blow, but we did not collapse; We have made a titanic front. Titanic? We have launched unprecedented efforts. We don't just lock ourselves in the house; which was an inevitable decision. The courage and soul of the two peoples arose. In Spain, we have moved to save businesses, avoid layoffs, support three and a half million workers without wages, help one and a half million freelancers. And we've introduced the minimum vital income, a measure similar to your citizenship income. But now Europe must live up to its peoples. However, not everything has worked. Is there something I would never do again? Would it not have been better to avoid the 8M demonstration, for which it has been widely criticized? If we had known in late February what we know now, we would have acted earlier. But if I had made those decisions then the citizens and the Parliament would not have followed me. He knew he was asking for a great effort, in fact, the alarm state extended every 15 days; and every 15 days I submitted to Parliament's debate and vote. It was like having a debate on the state of the nation every two weeks. Can you talk about a pact, a political alliance between you and Conte to ask Europe for change, solidarity and investment? Yes. This alliance, this pact between Italy and Spain is necessary and can bring great fruits to Europe. We are two brother peoples, Mediterranean, Europeanist. We have had disagreements, for example on immigration. Italy has often been left alone on immigration. And instead, we must give a common response, under the banner of responsibility and solidarity, on immigration and on everything else. The virus has affected us more than others because we are two open countries, with a strong international projection. Spain is the nation with the most visitors in the world, last year we had 83 million tourists: what was, and will continue to be, a fortress has become a vulnerability. The same applies to Madrid and Barcelona as to another extraordinary city like Milan. But now Italy and Spain can help achieve a change of weight in the European Union. The Italian and Spanish governments are the promoters of the letter to the European Council of March 25, requesting the creation of shared debt. Now the result seems close. It is. There are three objectives: the agreement should be closed this month; the size of the Recovery Fund and the relationship between the non-repayable part and the debt portion should not be decreased; and resources must be brought in quickly and over a long period of time for the economic recovery to be structural. Can an Agreement on the Recovery Fund be reached by July? It can and must. We cannot expect anything else: citizens would not understand it and neither would economic actors. We have experienced an unprecedented pandemic and we must deliver a joint and equally unprecedented response. We are one step away from a historic result, from a decisive moment as the creation of the European Community could be for you; for us, the entry into Europe after the fall of the Franco regime; for Eastern Europe, the fall of the wall; for all, the birth of the single currency. The moment we are experiencing is historical. If we fail, our own towns will bill us. If we succeed, we can take a leap forward in building Europe. Do you think our generation will see the United States of Europe? If we succeed at this crucial moment, I am convinced that we will see them. Did you not expect more from France and Germany ? Macron had signed his letter and, afterwards, he gave the impression of realigning himself with the German position. The important thing is to underline the common elements of the different proposals. Spain suggested an even larger amount of the Recovery Fund, but if we combine the employment insurance fund, the European Rescue Mechanism (Mede) and the resources of the Investment Bank with the 750,000 million indicated by the European Commission, we are talking about a unprecedented proposal, which exceeds 1,000 million. The essential thing is that Europe builds its own model: transfers, shared debt, revitalization of the welfare state and strengthening of public health, which other countries do not have and therefore are still in serious difficulties. How do you explain the reluctance of some nations in the north Europe? Are there prejudices against Latin countries? Are we seen as the cicadas of the continent? It is up to us to demonstrate that these clichés do not correspond to reality. Will you go to Holland and Sweden before the Brussels summit on the 17th? Yes, I have the utmost respect for Mark Rutte and Stefan Löfven. But they must recognize that there are no countries that give and others that receive. The Fund is a common fund, to which everyone contributes. And, if we do not move, the single market, from which the small countries of Central Europe take more advantage than us, is also in danger. With what criteria will the spending plans of the different countries in Europe be voted on? The Netherlands demands unanimity. The European Commission has already identified an evaluation mechanism that seems reasonable to me. I do not see the need for vetoes. Will Spain use the resources of the Mede for health? I know that in Italy it is an open political question. I believe that each country is free to choose and should not be stigmatized, whatever the choice. Spain has adequate access to credit; so for now we do not see the need to resort to Mede. You have signed a pact with businessmen and unions to spend the 140,000 million from the Recovery Fund that should reach Madrid. How will you invest them? In ecological transition, digital inclusion, training and defense of workers and strengthening of the welfare state. Many ideas are common with Italy and with the European Commission. You have said that this crisis will be brief but that it will be hard. But how short and long? How long will it take for Spain and Europe to recover? Does a time of social tension await us? Autumn will be difficult for sure. The risk is there, it is up to us to avoid it. The pandemic was no one's fault and no one should be left behind. We have passed the first phase: resistance. Our countries have returned to work. We are now in the reactivation phase. The fall in GDP will be serious, also because from America to the East, the pandemic is not over. But I am convinced that the full recovery phase is beginning. That is why expansive fiscal policies are needed for companies and for workers. Personally, how have you lived through this dramatic crisis? It has been hard for everyone. At the end of March, 1,000 Spaniards - and 1,000 Italians - died a day. There was no family that was not affected, including mine. I chose to trust the science, the experts. I avoided lies and false guarantees and sought dialogue with everyone. Strong empathy has developed between people and between institutions. A great common commitment, which must now be replicated in Europe. How did he manage to stay close to his wife Begoña, who has had Covid? Luckily she was asymptomatic, but other relatives have contracted the virus. We have all suffered. Many have suffered greatly. The elderly have undergone a serious trial. I have not seen my father and mother for more than three months. Now, for those of us who remain, the reunions are being wonderful. I can tell you something? It was difficult to shut yourself up at home, but it is also difficult to come back to life. We have to recover the streets. Leave. Retrieve old social habits that were not in themselves bad, but the virus is still there ... We have to learn to live with it. There are outbreaks in both Spain and Italy and others will follow. We will not let our guard down but now we are ready. We know the Covid-19 better and the healthcare system is stronger than before. We need to restart trade, travel, rebuild normality. Do you want to tell tourists that they can come to Spain in peace? Spain is a safe country. It is true that zero risk does not exist, but we must recover our lives. You have accused the opposition of trying to use the pandemic to overthrow the government. Very harsh words. Why? I have sought unity with the autonomous governments and social partners and I have found it. I also looked for it with the right-wing parties, which instead saw in the emergency an opportunity to bring down the Executive. An incomprehensible approach. Here the only public enemy was the virus. The president of the Popular Party in Galicia, Feijóo, argues that a great coalition like in Germany would not be bad either. What answers? That the PP casually speaks of a great coalition only when the first force is the socialist party. Have you ever thought of an agreement with the PP? No. Do you know why Pasok, the Greek socialist party, has almost disappeared? Because it formed the great coalition with the right, while what Greece demanded were social measures. In other countries, from Israel to France, the socialist parties have almost disappeared; And even the German SPD is not having a good time. Why has this not happened with the PSOE? Not only because of our 140 years of history, but because we have been able to intercept the movements, and in part also the frustration and indignation of the young. If we had been castled in the Government and in the power agreements, it would have been very different. They ask me why there is no ecological party in Spain. Actually there is: it is us. Just as we are the women's rights party, but the progressive government is fragile, no, it is solid, we will see. However, in the end also in Italy, a party considered populist and anti-system has colluded with a historic party on the left. Does Conte's government look a bit like yours? I wouldn't put it that way. Podemos is very different from the Five Star movement and it is also different from us, the socialists. Podemos has made its memories and songs that belonged to us, but its roots are different from ours: they are based on communism and not on reformism. Two of its ministers are communists. It is true that in Spain communism fought the dictatorship and after the death of Franco, historical figures such as Santiago Carrillo and the Passionaria returned from exile. The evolution of Spanish communism has allowed the Constitution to be fully applied, including the recognition of the King, and he will also be remembered as the president who exhumed the body of Franco from Valle de los Caídos. At this time when the statues are demolished, was it really necessary? Yes, a dictator did not deserve a mausoleum and his victims could not rest next to him. We have done it legally, applying Zapatero's Law of Historical Memory and with broad social consensus. In his book 'Manual de Resistencia' he tells that his grandfather learned to write only after the end of the dictatorship ... Yes, I was a child who accompanied him to the adult school. I learned to ride a bicycle on the campus of the Complutense University of Madrid, where my father, a hard-working student, attended evening courses in economics. My father was only 21 when I was born, my mother, 19: went to university with me, studying at night after work. I don't come from a rich or educated family, but from a family that believed in culture. If I think about when I decided to dedicate myself to politics, I think the origin is there: in open wounds. In the memory of the illiterate grandparents, how are the relations between the PSOE and the Church now after so much tension? Has anything changed with Pope Francis? Relations are calm. Francis is a charismatic Pope, I look forward to meeting him. I will tell you one thing: in the matter of Franco's exhumation, he helped me. In the Valley of the Fallen there was a community of Benedictine monks who were totally against exhumation. I asked for the Vatican's intervention and everything went well. How is the relationship with King Felipe VI? Have you spoken often during the pandemic? We continue to meet once a week. We have a very close relationship. Is it about you or about you? A king is not about you but he is about me. We are from the same generation. Regarding the Catalan question, is dialogue possible? Is it possible and necessary, within the framework of the Constitution? Are you concerned about the aggressiveness of the Chinese expansion in Africa and also in Europe? The pandemic has changed the world and also the international relations. There is one mistake that we must not fall into: believing that every European country can have a unilateral relationship with China. We are very small, each and every one of us would succumb. Europe must relate to China, as with the United States, India, or Africa. But I am sure that Spain and Italy will not fall into that error. You have written a tweet for Morricone. I liked my brother and David very much, who is a conductor, composer and speaks Italian well. Unfortunately not, although I would like to learn it. The music of Ennio Morricone has accompanied our lives and will be with us forever. It is true that at the end of the meeting he will take Conte to take a photo in front of Guernica di Picasso, the symbolic image of the civil war? Yes, for me the Guernica means two things: memory and Europe Destruction and reconstruction ... I see a pro-European impulse that we have never seen before. The Covid crisis can be remembered as the historical moment when Europe was reborn and built its destiny

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