Exclusive video 丨 Interview with forensic doctor Liu Liang: autopsy pathology results of deceased patients with new crown pneumonia will be announced soon

After completing the autopsy of the first dead of new coronary pneumonia in the early morning of February 16, Liu Liang's team has obtained pathological samples of 9 dead.

Anatomy of the remains to unveil the virus

Reporter: After you made this first case, you need to carry out corresponding research on a lot of very important information about this first case. What is the purpose?

Liu Liang: The purpose is to figure out what exactly this virus hurt us. We call it a target organ. Like this pneumonia, we all know that when we take that virus and do nucleic acid measurement, we need this patient to keep on. Ground cough, the cough outside the alveoli can be harvested, so I feel this virus, it is invading the outer lobe of the lung, then why does it invade that place, is this place, the real target is This place, first, we can explore its transmission channels and how it goes. The second is that we are going to target this place, we need to give it medicine, and the other is that it is in it. What mechanism does it take to damage the lung? If you find this, you can take it Protective measures. Without autopsy, basically you can't figure out your opponent, and you can't figure out where it will hit you.

Reporter: Isn't it just like in the night when you can't see your five fingers, it is hard to see the virus itself?

Liu Liang: Right.

Reporter: Now that we have done this pathological anatomy, what kind of situation are we equivalent to?

Liu Liang: It's equivalent to pulling this veil away, seeing its face, revealing what it really looks like, in the end where it is great, and where our weaknesses are, we can carry out prevention and control and we can target Sexual treatment.

Pathological anatomy site is extremely strict

As early as January 22, Liu Liang called for pathological anatomy of the patients with new coronary pneumonia, and joined the team to submit emergency reports to relevant departments, emphasizing the importance of pathological anatomy.

Reporter: What caused you to do the first anatomy until February 16th?

Liu Liang: Because this site cannot be guaranteed, it must have negative pressure at the anatomical site, but our country does not have it. It has only a negative pressure laboratory and no negative pressure anatomical room.

Reporter: Why is the anatomy of the body so strict this time?

Liu Liang: Because it is indeed an unknown thing, and it is a severe infectious disease.

Reporter: But you see, on the one hand, because there is an ethical thing in medicine after all.

Liu Liang: Right. Let the relatives of the deceased tell them that I will disagree and do not want to do this dissection. In this state of emergency, the family cannot see and the family cannot go to the hospital. He cannot talk. It can't be said if the telephone contact is counted as evidence. Therefore, it is very difficult to communicate face to face because of time and space.

Reporter: What is the central state of the process you are waiting for?

Liu Liang: I'm anxious. Because someone keeps dying, and then feels at a loss. If he knew his disease one day earlier, it would be very valuable for clinical treatment.

Negative pressure anatomy room remodeled in small operating room

On the afternoon of February 15, Liu Liang was notified that a family member had agreed to donate the remains of a loved one for pathological dissection, and Wuhan Jinyintan Hospital agreed to transform a small operating room into an anatomic room.

Reporter: Does that hospital let you use it?

Liu Liang: The hospital is unwilling (to me) to use it. After using it, my environment will not be destroyed, so in this case, the media's call, our call, plus indeed everyone recognizes the importance. For example, at our Jinyintan Hospital, its surgery was stopped, and then we found an operating room in a relatively closed corner. This hospital happens to have negative pressure in this operating room, which is a space with negative pressure, so it is more suitable for us to do.

Reporter: You just said that you can meet this strict condition. Then you have to create such an anatomical room. What transformation do you want to do?

Liu Liang: All the non-essential things must be cleaned up. There is one more thing that we should pay attention to. It should not cause pollution of some blood stains in the room, because in addition to the air, it also has an impact on the ground and the launching. Pollution.

Reporter: You just talked about doing some cleaning on the periphery first, to find the smallest room, and then clear everything that can be cleared in this room, which is basically empty. Where are you?

Liu Liang: I am just above a movable bed.

Reporter: What I said just now is what kind of protection should the environment make, and what kind of protection do you have to do before you go in?

Liu Liang: We have to do all kinds of protection, just like our clinicians, of course, we have a higher level of protection.

Reporter: How high can it be?

Liu Liang: For example, there are two layers of gloves, we wear three layers of gloves, one layer of masks, two layers of hats, two or three layers of hats, and goggles and protective screens, clothing specifications It is also very high, and it has a particularly good airtightness, which is not air-permeable and air-permeable. This closes all your exposed areas. We all wear double-layer protective clothing, one is the pollution of the environment, the other is the pollution of our personnel, even if the personnel are harmed.

"Use your body to pave the way for more people's health"

At around 1 am on February 16th, the three of Liu Liang's team entered the anatomy room and started the first pathological dissection of the patients with new coronary pneumonia.

Reporter: Did the body go first or did you go first?

Liu Liang: Go in after the body.

Reporter: Are you waiting for the remains in the room?

Liu Liang: Wait.

Reporter: How to take the first step?

Liu Liang: Let's clean it up first. After we uncover the cloth, we will bow to him collectively.

Reporter: This is the rule, isn't it?

Liu Liang: It ’s a rule, but it ’s a special respect for him.

Reporter: Why?

Liu Liang: It's not easy. The family who can donate the remains for dissection has actually made a great contribution, so we bowed to him for a long time.

Reporter: Why do you bow for a long time?

Liu Liang: It is a tribute.

Reporter: Is this from the heart?

Liu Liang: From the bottom of my heart, I thank these people very much, they are in love.

Reporter: I left alone, but using my body can pave the way for more people's health.

Liu Liang: Right.

As the dissection proceeds, "Sorry, you can do it."

The first autopsy lasted nearly three hours, ending at 3:50 in the morning.

Reporter: How long do you usually do an autopsy?

Liu Liang: It's usually about an hour, it'll be over in 40 minutes.

Reporter: What is the reason for this long time?

Liu Liang: The first is the first case. Be cautious. The second is really uncomfortable.

Reporter: How uncomfortable?

Liu Liang: Just like the altitude sickness, people are deprived of oxygen in them, as we usually do. It is to sew the skin and take a needle to sew outside. It is very easy, but in that case After sewing a stitch at the back, I panted, just like that, and then stopped for a while, and my waist was not comfortable. Then come again. In fact, I can't stand it later. When I deal with the later things, I will call the assistant Dr. Wang. I say no, I am like hypoglycemia. I said sorry, let's do it.

Reporter: Why is it so tired?

Liu Liang: Putting on the whole costume is just like the astronauts, stuffy inside, and then the whole sweat keeps going down, so there will be dehydration, and then in the middle of the night, it will be hungry.

Reporter: Professor Liu, from the 15th and 16th (February), you made the first case, and now you have done a lot one by one. Do you think this is more beneficial, or does it have certain needs? , Is it all right?

Liu Liang: More should be better.

Reporter: Why?

Liu Liang: It turned out that the virus is bullying the elderly. After a while, young people also have children. If you do n’t have a lot of this data to observe, for example, if you do two, one change in one lung, one lung There is no such change. Is his personal problem or this pneumonia problem? Therefore, it must be classified according to different ages, different genders, (self) and (other) diseases. In the case of classification, the general law of this pneumonia can be found out. Therefore, we must figure out what is the mechanism that actually causes pneumonia. If not classified, it is easy to create new problems. It's an illusion.

Race against time hope tomorrow

The pathology of new coronary pneumonia obtained from the anatomy has been submitted for examination. It is expected to find the pathogenic and lethal pathology of new coronary pneumonia, and provide a basis for future clinical treatment of critically ill patients.

Liu Liang: Academician Zhong Nanshan called me this morning (24th), anxious, he said that our front-line doctors will wait for your result, otherwise we do n’t know what to do with this treatment and how to evaluate the treatment effect ?

Reporter: When you listened to Academician Zhong's call, what did you think?

Liu Liang: I'm anxious, hurry up and hurry up, so we did it on the evening of February 15th, and in the early morning of the 16th to this day (February 24th). Actually, the preliminary results have already begun. The preliminary results are being discussed internally, and a consensus has been formed, which may be issued tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, and sent to the front-line doctors later, they will give feedback.

Producer 丨 Xiao Zhensheng He Shaowei

Reporter 丨 Dong Qian

Camera 丨 Zhao Yuhua Qiu Xinlu Yang Decai

Edit 丨 Tan Yun, Wang Yu, Jiang Xiaoping

Production 丨 Chao Chao Li Bin