How do you view researchers' criticism of green growth?

- I see these studies as a cry for help that what we do is inadequate. And it's important to point that out. They show that so far we have not had a growth that has been sufficiently green. There has not been enough “decoupling”, but it does not say that it would be impossible. It is also too early to judge the idea.

What is your main objection?

- One thing is that it is a major challenge to solve the climate issue and difficult to formulate policies that lead to 2 or 1.5 degrees of heating. But that does not mean that the idea of ​​green growth is wrong.

- The most important and indeed the most politically feasible is to control the direction of growth. What is called growth is a common cross-section of all growth in all sectors. Politicians must steer growth away from fossil fuels. There should be high growth in climate-friendly sectors and negative growth in climate-damaging sectors.

How should politicians control growth?

- A meaningful policy must be made simultaneously on the whole earth. Number one is to introduce a price for carbon dioxide emissions. From a climate point of view, a global carbon tax is far more effective than propagating for reduced growth.

Why?

- We need growth in solar cells, wind power and battery production for the transition. We need food, health care and education in poor countries, and none of this means any major addition of carbon dioxide. In addition, there is no “reduce-growth” button, but a carbon dioxide tax sends a signal to the economic system and makes low-carbon, low-cost and fossil-fueled solutions expensive.

President Macron's attempt to introduce gasoline taxes in France resulted in such protests that he had to back down from the proposal.

- As a politician, one must listen to one's voters and sell one's policies properly. Macron failed with that.

You say that reduced growth is not a politically viable path. Why?

- Most of humanity wants consumption and poor people in developing countries definitely want growth. To lift 1.3 billion people out of poverty, we need global growth. It's hard to fight that people need electricity, housing, clean water, education and medicine. It is also a matter of ethics that they have access to it.