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A large number of files had been filed, and it was ultimately theirs that were retained at Visa for the image. Olivier Coret, 47 years old, freelance photographer, and Eric Hadj, 51, freelancer at Paris Match , present until September 15th, as part of the famous international photojournalism festival in Perpignan, two series of snapshots made throughout the year. movement of yellow vests. Cross interview.
RFI: Visa for the image is an opportunity to stop for a moment on the highlights of the past year. The Yellow Vests , is that for you also the event of 2018-2019? The one that pops up without warning?
Olivier Coret: In the beginning, we did not know at all how it would happen, if it would last, and how big it would be. It does not come from a union or a political party, but from a call on the Internet. It is true that we went from surprise to surprise on the first Saturday of the event.
Eric Haj: November 17th is the great unknown. The press had talked a lot about it, but we know that on social networks, in general, people say they come and finally, they do not come. The big surprise was that the next day, protesters continued to block roundabouts in the provinces.
What are your first impressions ? You spoke, Olivier, of a motley movement in its infancy.
Olivier Coret: Yes, absolutely. The first day, I go north of Amiens, in Picardy, on the highway. And there, I discuss with people, each person seems to have different demands. We see very varied social categories, young people, old people. The only common denominator that justifies talking about a group is the yellow vest.
Eric Haj: The first event, if you will, is really all the yellow jackets, the very motivated ones. There are no black blocks, no breakers. That, it came to acts 2 and 3. Indeed, it is a mixture of people who do not know each other. Socially, the thing that unites them is the lack of money, the end of difficult months, whether they work or not.
Why, in your opinion, this movement has its place here at Visa for the image, between all these wars ?
Eric Haj: In the form, maybe in the violence, it's different but it reminds Mai-68, I think. Every Frenchman has an opinion on yellow vests. It is a social movement that has marked people and will remain in the social history of the country.
Olivier Coret: There were scenes, especially in Paris, that we had never seen before. Avenue Kleber on fire, with eight cars burned simultaneously, or tens of thousands of people converging on the Arc de Triomphe to take it, it is quite unique. Visa pour l'image is an international photography festival. However, this event has been covered by all the media around the world for quite a few weeks. It was a major moment for the international press.
You have seized this moment from its beginnings. You have been embarked, like that, in a kind of adventure for months. How did everything begin for you personally ?
Eric Haj: Like any story. Except that right from the beginning, we knew it was not common. No organization, no security, no procedure, no direction to demonstrate. It was a little lawless, people were going wherever they wanted. They tried to go to the Elysee, they did not succeed so they returned to the Champs. Afterwards, they were at the Concorde. It was a little ballad Yellow Vests. It is only from the act 2 that they all gave themselves fixed appointments.
Olivier Coret: The phenomenon fascinated me even before its beginning. It was the first time I was going to cover something without having a clue what was going to happen. I immediately thought it was fun and interesting to follow. And we were both made to do it for five or six months in an ultra-intense way. From the moment we start a story, we finish it. Except that, we do not even know if it's over.
If it continues, you continue?
Olivier Coret: I think so, but we are not futurists!
Journalists were injured by the violence. And you ?
Éric Haj: I was a victim, but not to the point of going to the hospital or having a broken arm. Like many journalists, I took stones, pots of paint, truncheons. Breakers saw me and attacked me, yellow vests intervened. Sometimes the police intervened to get me out of difficult situations. Compared to journalists who have lost an eye or have been seriously injured, I do not have to complain.
How do you interpret the level of violence on all sides ?
Eric Haj : It's the band phenomenon. People come for the violence and others get dragged into it. It only takes one tap somewhere, and everyone follows. Nonviolent people can become extremely violent, with adrenaline, you do not really realize. It is when they are arrested that they realize the consequences. Police officers told me on the sidelines of the exhibition that they had caught many who, once arrested, regretted, asked for forgiveness, cried.
Do you think it's the same for the police, Olivier ?
Olivier Coret: Violence feeds on violence. From one Saturday to the next, there was an upsurge. Some peaceful protesters found themselves in the middle of it, and the next Saturday they were "radicalized". Police violence, legitimate or not, has radicalized some yellow vests, which initially were absolutely not. Afterwards, there are groups that have aggregated and that were clearly there to break. It's good for a lot of protests, there are people who like to hit on cops, break banks, and use any event. There they benefited greatly.
The coverage of the movement has raised important questions of public utility concerning the culture of law enforcement in France. Behind the dwarfed people, the LBD has also become a symbol. And France was banging on the fingers. So the journalists have to cover the police excesses.
Éric Hadj: As a journalist, we have our place, whether there is violence or not. We must be there.
Olivier Coret: When I see someone attacking weaker than him, law enforcement officers exert violence on civilians, and especially when it does not come to respond to other violence, I hope that my photos will hurt the violent people. I do not go to a demonstration to denounce police excesses. On the other hand, if they happen before me and I can denounce them, I do it. Our job is to try to move lines.
What is your view of this whole generation of citizen journalists who came forward during the Yellow Islands, and in particular these photographers in a position perhaps more militant, more denunciatory ?
Eric Hadj: Olivier and I have been journalists for several decades. It is true that there is terrible confusion on the ground today. You have helmeted types, stamped "press" from everywhere, who film with their mobile and make direct on Facebook. Some will go to the police, insult them, provoke them, and film them. For us, from there, it's no longer journalism. We must not insult yellow jackets or police officers. Someone falls to the ground, we can help them get up, but we can not throw stones. In these events, there were rows of smartphones. I had to ask people to let me work, they said to me: " Push yourself, I make memories. It's simple: we are not violent patients, and we do not overlook them.
Olivier Coret: Everyone can be a journalist. But we can not take sides. When you shoot a policeman or anyone ten centimeters away from his face, it's an assault. It can lead to violence. I noticed that journalists complain on Twitter: " Oh, I got a bludgeon! When we go where it's violent, we can hurt ourselves, we are not in a bubble. During the 20 or 25 events I covered, I was never targeted, or once. I was too close, I was photographing an arrest and I hit myself with a truncheon. The policeman, it must be said that it's 25 Saturdays he works, that he has devices at ten centimeters of him, that he took a lot of head all day. So, go complain on Facebook ...
There are a lot of portraits in this movement. We can say that yellow vests are very photogenic!
Olivier Coret: Absolutely. The unity of color, with these yellow vests and policemen in blue, we can say that things were well done. Then, when there is a large crowd manifesting on the Champs-Elysees, it is necessarily photogenic.
Eric Haj: There were loads of people putting on wigs, disguising themselves as revolutionary clothes from two centuries ago. There were hyper-comic photos. You, Olivier, you photographed a priest in yellow vest, I have a cock. It seemed like all of France was moving.
And in the provinces, we saw scenes of socialization, meetings, villages ...
Olivier Coret: And roundabouts! They even built huts. A lot of things happened between people. Someone told me that they actually needed to talk to each other. They talked to their neighbors, to the people in their village. And now, they help each other for bread, etc. For five months, they needed support for logistics. They continue in their daily lives.
In Paris, we see schoolboys every day out of group with yellow vests, this is the rule! But with the TV, the adults who speak about it, this movement fascinates in the school yards, and not only in France. We photographed two little girls all dressed in yellow stop for a long time in one of your exhibitions, you know?
Olivier Coret: Babies yellow vests? We have work for ten years!
You were talking about May-68, Eric. It turns out that it was the fiftieth anniversary in 2018, and that the state had given up organizing a commemoration, believing that it could not come from him. There had already been a lot of tension around the 1st of May 2018. Finally, did not some people, even unconsciously, made an appointment to celebrate ?
Eric Haj: I'm leaning towards chance. But I have often heard yellow vests say to me, " It's been a long time since we said it, that will fart. And now that's it! It's something that has been brewing for a very long time. It's true that it's been years since I've heard that you need a revolution, that you have to break everything, that you're sick of taxes, and so on. It took those social networks, this yellow vest banner. No journalist could have predicted that it would last six months, that there was going to be so much damage, that so many people were going to lose their jobs because their shop was broken, as many people were injured by LBDs .
Some young minds seem prepared for the future. One sometimes has the impression of being in proto-revolutionary situation, in France. You yourself say that many are waiting for a revolution, right ?
Eric Hadj: If they are motivated and supportive, they are ready to break everything. I agree with Olivier: we have seen people who did not know the name of their neighbor for 20 years. Suddenly, they found themselves eating together, smoking, talking about their social problems. From there is born a fraternity. When you went into a roundabout, people would say, " We will not let go. All. But somewhere, they still had satisfaction, the new taxes were dropped. Other claims have not been met for political reasons, but personally, I think Yellow Vests have won the game. They showed that they were there and could win their case.
► Olivier Coret's exhibition
► Eric Hadj's exhibition