(East-West question) Geshu Xisi: Why did the translation of "Dream of Red Mansions" in Dutch take 13 years?
China News Agency, Leiden, Netherlands, March 27th: Why did the translation of "Dream of Red Mansions" in Dutch take 13 years?
——Interview with Dutch translator Ge Shuxisi
China News Agency reporter De Yongjian
In November 2021, the full Dutch translation (120 times) "Dream of Red Mansions" will be officially published.
This masterpiece of Chinese literature finally has a Dutch translation that matches its status.
Three Dutch translators, Anne Sytske Keijser, Silvia Marijnissen, and Mark Leenhouts, have been translating for 13 years. The final version for readers is bound in four volumes. 2160 pages thick.
After the publication of the translation, it attracted the attention of the Dutch academic circles and the media, and many Dutch media published reports or wrote book reviews.
Recently, Geshu Xisi accepted an exclusive interview with China News Agency "Dongxiwen" at Leiden University in the Netherlands, where he talked about his 13-year translation process, and even the full Dutch translation of "Dream of Red Mansions". Importance of culture.
The cover of the 4th volume of the full Dutch translation of A Dream of Red Mansions.
Photo courtesy of China News Agency Fage Shu Xisi
The following is a summary of the interview transcript:
China News Service reporter: The outside world may be curious, why did it take 13 years to complete the translation? What is the hardest part about translating? The most interesting place?
Geshu Xisi:
Actually, we have not been engaged in the translation of "A Dream of Red Mansions" for 13 years. We all have our own jobs. I am a teacher at Leiden University in the Netherlands. Ma Sophie and Lin Ke have not only translated "A Dream of Red Mansions" over the years, but also translated many other work.
The translation work took so long because first we had to figure out how to translate the tone of "A Dream of Red Mansions" into proper Dutch.
There are many dialogues in "A Dream of Red Mansions", and it is very interesting and attractive. There are also very fine things in it, from which you can feel the characters of the characters.
Therefore, sometimes the meaning may have been turned out, but when I read it, I always feel that there is something wrong, not vivid enough, not life-like enough, and I feel that the tone is inappropriate.
Like the word "you".
There is also "you" in Dutch, but it only means "respect", not the "distance" between people.
In "A Dream of Red Mansions", the tone of "you" has changed a lot. It stands to reason that the attack is Jia Baoyu's maid, so Jia Baoyu should be called "you", but because of her close relationship with Jia Baoyu, she would never use "you". You" address Jia Baoyu, but she will definitely address Wang Xifeng with "you", which requires us to carefully distinguish the relationship between characters and translate the different tones well.
Translating "A Dream of Red Mansions" also requires understanding a lot of cultural background. This process has brought us into contact with all aspects of traditional Chinese culture, and the harvest is particularly great.
For example, when Chinese medicine is mentioned in the book, you should read books related to Chinese medicine when you read it to understand what these Chinese medicines mean, and understand why Jia Baoyu said that girls should not take certain medicines, but boys should take them; I learned a lot of interesting Chinese architecture knowledge, and then took this knowledge to visit the Chinese Garden near Groningen (a city in the north of the Netherlands), and found that the design inside is very interesting.
The filming location of the TV series "Dream of Red Mansions" - Beijing Grand View Garden.
Photo by China News Agency
In addition, some things in "A Dream of Red Mansions" have no corresponding vocabulary in Dutch, and some words must be "invented" when translating.
For example, "kang", there is no "kang" in the Netherlands, so there is no way to translate it. We felt that the Dutch language should accept this word, so we only commented on the first appearance in the book, and then directly transliterated it as "kang".
As for the names in the book, the master's name was not translated into Dutch, and the servant's name was translated into Dutch.
One of the hardest to translate was "Xiren", which we pondered for three years; the name had to be translated into a beautiful and attractive name in Dutch, and it had to be said nicely.
Sometimes one person thinks it's OK, but the other two think it's not, and only three people agree to put it in the book.
China News Service: After the full Dutch translation came out, a book review in the Dutch media stated that "Dream of Red Mansions is a literary masterpiece with both beauty and depth". A translator has repeatedly stated that the target audience for the full Dutch translation is the general public. How to balance the "depth" of "A Dream of Red Mansions" with the "shallowness" of the translated version that is easy for ordinary readers to read?
Brother Shuxisi:
This is a good question.
We also considered this issue, and finally made a "trade-off".
For example, there are many names in "A Dream of Red Mansions". We have made a relationship diagram of the characters at the back of each volume, and everyone's names are on it. You can turn to the back to check at any time when reading.
But since this translation is for general readers, we decided not to add too many footnotes, although the translation will lose something.
The names of people in "A Dream of Red Mansions" have many meanings, of course, you can add footnotes, but when you read "A Dream of Red Mansions" and immerse yourself in its world, I am afraid that you will not pay much attention to the meaning behind the names, but can't wait to know the next meeting. what happened.
There are also poems in "A Dream of Red Mansions", which have many meanings and allusions. A certain poem may be very related to Li Bai and Du Fu. We can add footnotes to these.
But for a poem of 10 or 12 lines, you can't add 5 footnotes to just one line, it will affect the reading fluency too much.
Dutch readers are not the same as Chinese readers.
"A Dream of Red Mansions" is a masterpiece of Chinese literature. Many people know about "A Dream of Red Mansions" since childhood and have watched the TV series "A Dream of Red Mansions".
But there is no such tradition in the Netherlands, and readers don't know "A Dream of Red Mansions" at all, so our first step is to translate "A Dream of Red Mansions" into Dutch so that ordinary readers can read it, and then organize activities, such as holding lectures, etc., to discuss the "Dream of Red Mansions". "depth".
Dream of Red Mansions themed clay sculpture "Reading the West Chamber" and porcelain sculpture "Daiyu Burial Flower".
Photo by Xu Jianmei issued by China News Agency
China News Agency reporter: How do you feel now that the full Dutch translation has been available for several months? How did readers react?
Brother Shu Xisi:
I am quite surprised.
The response to the translation was better than I expected, and readers especially liked it.
The first prints are all sold out, and the publishing house is organizing reprints.
For Dutch readers, reading "A Dream of Red Mansions" is like entering a completely unfamiliar world.
It is a very traditional feudal society in China in the 18th century. At first, readers may feel that everything is very unfamiliar, and they do not understand what the characters in the book are doing. However, after reading 100 or 150 pages, they will completely enter the world of "Dream of Red Mansions". , was strongly attracted by the characters in the book, "can't stop", can only continue to read the whole book.
A reader left a message on my Twitter account telling me that I had just finished reading "A Dream of Red Mansions", was completely fascinated by the world of "A Dream of Red Mansions", and is now officially "farewell"; and Nord Brabant (southern Dutch province) Public Books The curator of the museum especially likes this book and plans to organize a series of activities to let readers understand the background of "A Dream of Red Mansions"; some readers think of "A Dream of Red Mansions" because they have read the Dutch translation of "Zhuangzi" before. Some details in Zhuangzi.
This makes me feel very interesting. They read "Zhuangzi" first, and then read "A Dream of Red Mansions". It can be said that they have some understanding of traditional Chinese culture.
The inner page of the full Dutch translation of "A Dream of Red Mansions".
Photo courtesy of China News Agency Fage Shu Xisi
China News Service: A Dream of Red Mansions, as a literary masterpiece, can be regarded as a window into Chinese culture. What role do you think the full Dutch translation will play in spreading Chinese culture to the Dutch public, especially young people?
Geshuxisi:
It can make a big difference.
Ordinary Dutch people don't know much about traditional Chinese culture, but reading "A Dream of Red Mansions" can find a lot of resonance.
For example, the girl in the book who lives in the Grand View Garden knows in her heart that the good life will end soon, because she is about to get married, and she does not know what will happen after marriage, and her fate may be tragic. It feels especially relevant to young people.
There is also Jia Baoyu, whose family has high expectations for him. I remember that when I read "A Dream of Red Mansions" for the first time in my 20s, I felt the pressure of life and the feeling of being unable to grasp the future. ; And of course there are romances in the book, like who wished to be with whom, but it all fell apart for various reasons, and it felt beautifully written.
After I started translating "A Dream of Red Mansions", I started a class at the Chinese Institute of Leiden University to teach the social background of "A Dream of Red Mansions". Some students were very interested in the relationship between "A Dream of Red Mansions" and Buddhism and Taoism. Some students analyzed Wang Xifeng's status in Rongguofu. The students were very interested in the status of women in the book, and some students analyzed the laws of the Qing Dynasty involved in the book because they also studied law.
In addition, the description of daily life in "A Dream of Red Mansions" is very realistic. Dutch readers can understand the life of the Chinese aristocrats at that time through the details in the book. Those people felt very lonely, but they were surrounded by servants, who were serving clothes, meals, and even drinking tea. There must be a lot of people in the room. I never thought of such an observation perspective.
The English version of the opera "Dream of Red Mansions" performed at the San Francisco Opera House.
Photo by China News Agency reporter Liu Dan
China News Service: In terms of academics, what is the significance of the full Dutch translation to the Dutch translation community and even the Sinology community?
Geshu Xisi:
I think one of the contributions of this book is to tell everyone that it is possible to translate such a great book as "A Dream of Red Mansions", because there is sometimes a saying in the Dutch translation industry that "a certain book cannot be translated". unreversible".
For the three of us, we also discussed whether to leave it to one person to read. Later, we felt that "A Dream of Red Mansions" was too complicated, and one person might collapse. Two or three people would do, but four people were too many.
Then each of us has something we are good at. Ma Sophie is good at translating poetry, and Lin Ke has translated difficult literary works such as "Besieged City". I am good at studying traditional Chinese culture and Chinese history, and I have a good understanding of classical Chinese, so we The three of them started working together; now that the full Dutch translation of "A Dream of Red Mansions" has come out, there are still many masterpieces of Chinese literature and even world literature to be translated into Dutch. We must continue to work hard.
In 2010, at the 9th "Chinese Bridge" Chinese Proficiency Competition for Foreign College Students, the contestants performed the classic "Daiyu Burial Flower" from "A Dream of Red Mansions".
Photo by China News Agency reporter Fu Yu
From a literary point of view, the full Dutch translation can also play a role in promoting the diversification of world literature.
After reading "A Dream of Red Mansions", Dutch readers may become interested in other Chinese literary works and are willing to read the Dutch version of these works. When it comes to such a TV series, I believe that many people will watch it, and then maybe they will read "A Dream of Red Mansions".
In general, I think it is worthwhile to learn about another culture and another world through literature.
I often say in class that many students do not necessarily like Chinese literature, just like many Dutch students are not interested in Dutch literature. I hope that my course can cultivate their curiosity about Chinese literature, and they may learn from this in the future.” "Curiosity", work as a translator or work in a diplomatic department or a cultural institution, and do something to promote cultural exchanges and mutual learning between China and the West.
(over)
Interviewee Profile:
Geshu Xisi, a Dutch translator, is currently teaching at the Chinese School of Leiden University in the Netherlands. In the 1980s, he studied at Leiden University and Xiamen University. He has translated works by Chinese writers such as Nie Hualing, Zhang Xianliang, Ye Zhaoyan, Su Tong, Bi Feiyu, Bai Xianyong, and Zhou Zuoren. As well as Chinese classical literature; at the School of Chinese Studies at Leiden University, he mainly teaches courses in modern Chinese, ancient Chinese, and Chinese literature.