Mr. Holnburger, how alarmed do you look into the new year?

Julia Schaaf

Editor in the "Life" section of the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung.

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Very alarmed.

We are dealing with a very frustrated scene.

People say their demonstrations have brought nothing and that the compulsory vaccination, which they so feared, is now coming anyway.

This leads to a greater willingness to use violence.

Death threats against politicians, increasingly clashes between demonstrators and the police - the security authorities are now also warning.

Are you surprised?

Unfortunately, no.

The current frustration is only one thing.

We have been saying all along that violence is being expressed both online and offline.

This also has to do with the worldview: If you believe in a global conspiracy by an evil elite - that's why we speak of conspiracy ideologies - you are more willing to go to extremes, the more evil you draw the supposed enemy.

Violence is actually the logical continuation of a conspiracy ideological worldview.

As the managing director of the Center for Monitoring, Analysis and Strategy (CeMAS), you and your colleagues observe around 3000 channels and chat groups, mainly on Telegram.

Has the development that we are currently experiencing on the streets become apparent in the digital space?

It always went hand in hand.

When people utter murder fantasies on a digital platform, it means that a person is sitting in front of his keyboard typing something and possibly taking it out onto the street.

At the moment it's increasing, but it was part of the scene from the start.

Digital and analog hatred cannot be separated from one another.

What is "just" a loud roar?

When do you have to fear that words will turn into deeds?

Always where there are no limits.

When one person expresses violence in democratic discourse, others usually turn away and make it clear that they do not approve of it.

This demarcation never took place in the conspiracy ideological scene.

Someone like Oliver Janich, with his 160,000 subscribers on Telegram, said back in 2017 that all those in power should be put on the wall.

Janich has been invited to speak from the stage at lateral thinker demonstrations or to express himself via video.

It was never said: there were calls for violence from him, that is a red line, we will not tolerate that.

On the contrary: they stood by him.

If such people are empowered, it becomes even more likely that there will be physical consequences.

Why?

There is the term “stochastic terrorism”: the more often you hear, see and read calls for violence, the more likely it is that someone will actually do it.

That is the situation we are in right now.

The likelihood increases from day to day, the longer this remains unchallenged.

How does CeMAS deal with calls for murder that you come across on the Internet?

If we see a direct call for violence or learn that the private address is shared by a politician, we inform the person, sometimes also the authorities.

We are not looking for criminal offenses, however, that is the job of the public prosecutor and the police.

We point out that this problem exists.

However, over the past year we had the feeling that our warning had not been taken seriously enough.

We are frustrated that everyone is so surprised at the moment.