Mohammad Rasoulof, Iranian filmmaker: "By saying no, your conscience is free"

Iranian director Mohammad Rasoulof at the 2017 Cannes Film Festival. REUTERS / Regis Duvignau

Text by: Sara Saidi Follow

8 mins

With "The devil does not exist", the Iranian filmmaker Mohammad Rasoulof signs a powerful film on the death penalty in Iran.

Awarded the Golden Bear in Berlin last year, and theatrically released on December 1 in France, the film is made up of four short stories - shot clandestinely in Iran - and plunges viewers into the consciousness of "the one who remove the chair ”: the executioner.

Through this film, Mohammad Rasoulof, under pressure from the regime and banned from leaving the country, raises the question of individual responsibility and thus questions Iranian society.

Interview.

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RFI: Why is the film called

 ?

Mohammad Rasoulof: 

The initial title was called

 and refers to the book

  by Hannah Arendt.

The stake is to say that this “evil”, “this devil” on whom we are throwing our responsibility does not exist, but that it is the result of the decisions that we make ourselves.

It comes down to emphasizing individual responsibility.

What was the objective of your film, to offer a mirror to society?

Yes, that's exactly it.

Through these four stories, I wanted to say that at some point each of our choices can have a significant impact and that it is our duty to reflect on these choices and assume our responsibility.

But the act of killing and hanging are actually just examples for me to say that when we don't think about what we're asked to do, we just see ourselves as an executor and let go of responsibility. of any decision in power in place, we are then part of a system that can be so violent and destructive.

Exactly, it seems that through the actions of some of your characters you say that people are complicit in the crimes of the regime?

I do not believe that the expression "accomplices in crimes" is adequate.

However, the system wants you to act without thinking and this association between the indifference of the people and the authoritarian power creates a collaboration between the regime and the people.

If you don't take responsibility, then collaboration takes place through silence and indifference.

In fact, I think the question to be asked is to what extent should a law which undermines the humanity of individuals in a society actually be enforced?

The contrast between joy and sadness, routine and violence is very present in each of these four stories, what did you want to show?

I think that faced with an unethical decision, if you say yes, you can apparently have a normal life, have a car, a house, help your family.

But in the end, you are in a prison, in a constant torment which results from this complicity.

You are part of the system, but you have no identity.

Whereas conversely, if you say no, you will surely be pushed towards the margin, you will have to leave the city, you will be withdrawn your salary and your privileges in society, but you will live in a form of freedom, in a serenity that is not comparable to what you experienced before.

By saying no, your conscience is free.

You, Mr Rasoulof, you always say "no", you always take more risk, aren't you afraid?

Of course I am afraid.

The pressure is on.

Sometimes I am tired, I feel exhausted.

But I do feel a kind of serenity and pleasure in not having to wear different masks all the time and do what I don't like to do.

This difficulty, these risks, this pressure, it's hard, and it's scary, but the pleasure of being what you should be is a form of freedom that is enough for you, at least that's my point of view.

But the price to pay is sometimes expensive….

Yes, you can think of it like that, or you can think of this pressure as just as beautiful as it is strong.

The pleasure of opposing something that does not seem right to you is satisfying.

(…) Don't get me wrong, I live in this country and in this system, everything is not as I want and I cannot always oppose myself, sometimes I cannot resist.

But at least in my field, in the exercise of my profession, I can tell stories which give a truer vision of our lives.

It's a fight so that fewer lies are produced here.

Because the regime wants artists to produce the lies it wants to hear.

Are you under pressure?

The difficulties are numerous and there are several cases pending against me.

Sometimes when I think about these files, I tell myself that I had better give up and do something else, become a carpenter for example.

But I like cinema and I make films to be closer to a form of freedom.

(…) I think I have to use this context to create more stories, because despite all the difficulties, I prefer not to be silent.

I tell myself that even in prison, I could still continue to write.

How do you manage to get a team together and do your job with so much pressure from the system?

You always find people who agree to collaborate with you because the script or its objective pleases them. But it's hard to get to these people, especially when you have to work in secret. Fortunately, nowadays, digital tools have greatly transformed production work. Before, to make cinema, you absolutely needed a 35mm camera, a laboratory… today access to filming equipment is simpler and the process is shorter. You can film with a camera and edit at home on your computer. And it is fortunate for a person like me. I can even shoot with a laptop, if necessary, or work with a very, very small team. In my opinion, an authoritarian system cannot close all the roads. And as far as I'm concerned,I prefer to focus on the ways to find solutions rather than on the obstacles to come. For example, in "the devil does not exist", I knew that it was unlikely that I could film in a prison. But while writing the script, I thought to myself that I would definitely find a place that looked like it. This is how, thanks to a series of simple decorations, I was able to transform an abandoned school into a penitentiary. There are always solutions, it takes a lot of creativity, but we also have to keep hope.thanks to a series of simple decorations, I was able to transform an abandoned school into a penitentiary. There are always solutions, it takes a lot of creativity, but we also have to keep hope.thanks to a series of simple decorations, I was able to transform an abandoned school into a penitentiary. There are always solutions, it takes a lot of creativity, but we also have to keep hope.

What do you like most about cinema?

The desire to reflect what I see.

I often say that I make films with the things I don't know and not with the things that I know.

In the process of creation, I evolve myself, I learn at the same time as the film.

The important thing for me is that the film that I create is the result of something that comes out of my guts.

And this thing locked in my mind has to come from outside.

It is something that is in my life, it is the deep reflection of what I see around me.

Maybe that's why my films are different from each other.

So, what did this last film teach you?

Many things.

But already, at the technical level, I would never have thought that I would one day make a film with episodes.

Admittedly, this decision was also due to the context - I knew that I could not film for a long time -, but finally this construction allowed me to express what I wanted to say: thus, one of my characters says "yes , ”The other says“ no ”.

And whoever says no, what can happen to him?

Finally, can we say that this film is about courage?

Taking responsibility is in a sense of courage.

There is necessarily a strong pressure when you say no in a society like Iran and under a regime like the Islamic Republic, because they (the authorities Editor's note) want you to be either indifferent or like them.

If you try to be different from them and refuse to put on a mask, the system tells you "You want to think against me, okay, but don't do anything, stay home, and shut up."

And the simple fact of refusing that is politics.

Because you are opposing yourself.

So I think in this context any honest, non-hypocritical act is a form of resistance.

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