Interview with Souta Fujii and Masayuki Toyoshima on "Ryuo Battle"

Souta Fujii's four crowns (19), who won the title of the highest peak in the shogi world, "Ryuo Battle," and achieved the feat of being a teenager for the first time in history.

All four stations with Masayuki Toyoshima 9th Dan (31), who was challenged as a dragon king, became a "name match" that top players talk about uniformly.

This time, the two who finished the fierce battle responded to an independent interview with NHK.

"Winning or losing has a big meaning, but I was really happy to share the fun of pure shogi" (Souta Fujii, four crowns).

"If I can become stronger from now on, this game will be the trigger" (Masayuki Toyoshima 9th Dan).

What was the scenery that only two people could see in the offense and defense that was unfolded on the board of 81 squares divided into 9 squares vertically and horizontally?

* In the "NHK Special" broadcast on Sunday, December 12th at 9:00 pm, we will look back on the fierce battle of the "Ryuo Battle" from interviews with the two players and the testimony of the Go players.

A game that "feels a challenge" rather than "points well"

In November, Souta Fujii, who won the highest rank of "Ryuo" and became the "four crowns" that occupy half of the eight major titles.

Achieving the four crowns at 19 years and 3 months is the youngest in history.

He became the most title holder in the current shogi player, and stood at the top of the shogi world in both name and reality.

The interview with Mr. Fujii became "four crowns" two weeks later.

"I finally took a break."

The gentle expression was impressive.

4 wins, captures "Ryuo" without losing.

However, what Mr. Fujii said was not the emotion of achievement, but the words to calmly look back at himself.

"I was able to get good results in the Ryuo match, but looking at the content, there were many difficult scenes, so I feel that it was a series that felt the strength of Mr. Toyoshima. I was impressed with the game that I felt the challenge without going. "

It is the first station that Mr. Fujii says that he was particularly impressed.

He mentioned a scene where he made a mistake in his judgment and became painful, and recalled, "It was one station where I was faced with a problem."

"I was pointing at it because I thought it was a bit painful but sticky, but Mr. Toyoshima's hands were tougher than I expected, and it became clearly painful. I reconsidered if I could stick to it. ”

He says he learned a lot about how to fight after being inferior.

"When I was at a disadvantage, I pointed out that I should choose a hand that can keep the situation as complicated as possible, even though it is painful, so that I can not read it completely. Without it, I think it's often difficult for the other party to beat, so I wanted to resist even in difficult situations and point to staying away from losing immediately. "

"Strength of Fujii" talked about by the difficult enemy Masayuki Toyoshima

It was Masayuki Toyoshima, one of the strongest active players, who played in three of the four title battles of this year.

For Mr. Fujii, Mr. Toyoshima is a senior from the same Aichi prefecture.

It was a relationship that I learned in practice games even before I became a professional player.

Until last year, he lost all 6 races, and he was the only one who lost a lot.

At the press conference at the opening of the first title match of the three, "Oi", Mr. Fujii said, "Mr. Toyoshima has always been a senior," and "I want to fight firmly because I think it is an opportunity to lead to my own growth." ..

Three title battles, "Throne", "Eiou", and "Ryuo", where the two collided.

It was a battle of all 14 stations from June to nearly half a year.

In the first match of the throne, Mr. Toyoshima won the game completely, but after that, Mr. Fujii won four consecutive games.

The Eiou battle is a fierce battle that is entwined in the full set.

The Ryuo battle was a high-level battle beyond the imagination of top players.

Mr. Toyoshima is said to have felt the evolution of Mr. Fujii during this series of battles.

(Masayuki Toyoshima 9th Dan)

"I don't know why it's growth or rhythm, but I feel that the quality of Mr. Fujii's shogi was higher in the Ryuo match. Yes. In the early stages, the speed of adopting new tactics is fast. In the middle stage, you can read a lot of hands anyway. In the final stage, the judgment of jamming or not jamming is very accurate and quick. I often felt that it was difficult for me, but even so, I often felt that Mr. Fujii was able to read it accurately. "

"The appearance of Souta Fujii has become a new goal"

Mr. Toyoshima has always stood in front of Mr. Fujii as a big wall.

In this interview, I revealed that Mr. Fujii's presence has grown for me as well.

Mr. Toyoshima has been attracting attention for his talent since he was a child and has been expected to be a candidate for a future master.

However, after becoming a professional, the road to winning the title was a long way off, and it was a difficult time.

Three years ago, he talked about his heart when he grabbed his long-cherished first title.

"I struggled until I got the title, so at the end I felt like" I wish I could get one title, "and I had no other goals."

What appeared there was Mr. Fujii, who once played a practice game.

"Mr. Fujii had 29 consecutive victories after becoming a professional player, the speed of answering tsume shogi, and the content of shogi that he pointed to was threatening at that age, so the future is really amazing, never before. I felt like I would be a shogi player of the same level. "

Pursuit of truth "Ki is a dialogue"

The title battle of this year, where both parties, who talk about being big with each other, sandwiched the board.

The two responded that they were impressed with the final version of the 4th station, where the Ryuo battle was settled.

While fans and related parties were paying attention to the whereabouts of the game, the two talked about the fulfillment that "I was able to pursue the truth of shogi" beyond the victory or defeat.

In the final stage of the 4th station, the top players look back on "it was too difficult".

Mr. Toyoshima pondered and continued to search for the answer, but Mr. Fujii, who was slightly ahead of the reading, grabbed the victory.

It is said that the two continued to think about this scene for a while after the game.

(Masayuki Toyoshima 9th Dan)

"I have a feeling that I wanted to continue playing a little more, not the result. I can think about difficult situations as much as I can, but in a limited time. I often felt "Oh, I see" in the good hand that Mr. Fujii returned. If you point to the correct answer in a difficult situation, it will continue, so Yoshiharu Habu likened it to a "tennis rally." I've had it, but I wanted to keep pointing to the correct answer in that situation. It's difficult to put it into words, but it was a purely pleasant time to play. "

(Sota Fujii's four crowns)

"I didn't really feel that I won the title, but I wanted to think about shogi a little more." It's rare to see such a complicated situation in the final stage. The time to think about that situation was a lot of fun, apart from winning and losing. It is said that "shogi is a dialogue", but the move chosen by humans in a game is the "meaning" that the player thought. Or something like "will". The other player receives that intention and returns it. I think that is "dialogue". Of course, victory or defeat has a big meaning. It's a station, but I think I was really happy to be able to share the fun of pure shogi. "

“I want to be stronger, I want to meet more interesting situations”

Mr. Toyoshima became uncrowned after the title match with Mr. Fujii.

The interview was filled with words that looked ahead to the future.

"It's the first time I've lost a straight straight so far, and there haven't been many people since I won the title that I have to improve my shogi ability fundamentally. I lost three titles. Now that I'm uncrowned, I have to change the way I work from now on. I think the meaning of this game depends on how much I can play an active role and how much I can grow. If I can become stronger from now on, I think that the days of this game were the trigger. "

On the other hand, Mr. Fujii who stood at the top of the shogi world.

When asked about the future, he still wants to be stronger.

And Mr. Fujii's gaze was directed to the world beyond which he became stronger.

"I haven't played against one person in a row like this, so it was a very valuable experience for me to have a deeper understanding of the opponent's shogi and way of thinking through repeated battles. Mr. Toyoshima will be in the future for me. I think that is one of the goals that will continue to be one of the goals. I think that the most important thing in pointing to shogi is to think that it is "interesting". There isn't one, but I think that by becoming stronger, we will be able to encounter more interesting situations than before, so I would like to get closer to that kind of thing little by little. "