"The day will come when the machine will gain consciousness": science fiction writer Frank Scheetzing on the future of humanity and alien intelligence

- Science fiction stories are written based on reality and the predicted future.

Don't you think that such a fantasy can predetermine the future?

Is she able to shape it?

- It seems to me that it has always been so.

Consider the three laws of robotics that Isaac Asimov formulated in the late 60s.

Now we are discussing them in the context of artificial intelligence and the same robots.

It is also known that the idea of ​​the touchscreen was first introduced in 2001: A Space Odyssey.

That is, in terms of technology, a lot comes out of the pen of science fiction writers, and then scientists implement these ideas and introduce something into circulation.

If we talk about philosophy, then here I am skeptical, because in real life I have not observed any utopias or dystopias described by authors such as George Orwell.

Reality, in my opinion, is much more complicated and always develops in a different way than you suppose.

- Yes, that's right.

As a child, I was very interested in space exploration.

This was the great era of Soviet cosmonauts and American astronauts.

All science fiction writers predicted that in the future we will fly to other stars, populate Mars and the Moon.

To be honest, I am offended that my future, as it turned out, lies in the phone screen.

- Me too.

The year 2000 was perceived as a grandiose milestone, beyond which a wonderful future awaits us.

All science fiction writers of the 60s, 70s, even 80s told how we will coexist with aliens, how we will have a confederation - the Galactic Confederation - some kind of extraterrestrial leadership and so on.

What happened?

We got George W. Bush, Donald Trump and Kim Kardashian.

Things are going even worse than one could imagine.

And no significant changes.

Wars are still being fought, we still live on the planet in separate states.

So I agree: all of this is somewhat disappointing.

- If we consider the ideas of today's science fiction writers, which of them, in your opinion, will be relevant in the realities of tomorrow?

- It seems to me that we are no longer talking about some truly gloomy dystopias.

There is a lot of talk now about artificial intelligence.

In addition, we began to speculate about what extraterrestrial life might actually be.

If we take early science fiction, then there aliens have always been to a greater or lesser extent people - the embodiment of some of our best or, conversely, the worst features.

They were never really different.

When the Americans made science fiction films during the Cold War, Russians were usually, excuse me, portrayed as aliens.

Americans were afraid of them, and this inspired films about alien invasions.

Later, already in the works of Steven Spielberg, the aliens began to personify a kind of neoreligion.

Like angels from heaven who are much wiser than us.

As I said, we are talking about artificial intelligence, the way of thinking which is very different from ours, and also that one day robots will gain consciousness (at the moment they are very different from us, and it will not be easy to deal with them).

And people start thinking about what awaits them in films like Out of the Car or She ... or Arrival.

First, the aliens are peaceful there.

Secondly, they are completely different from us, and people do not understand them.

The emphasis is on communication.

- Do you think something similar could happen in the future?

- I think yes.

• Still from the film "2001: A Space Odyssey"

• © kinopoisk.ru

- If aliens exist in one form or another, will they be fundamentally different from the human race and not necessarily evil?

- Yes ... But now scientists are inclined to believe that if physical contact with aliens takes place, then most likely it will not be peaceful.

Not so long ago, an interesting trilogy of a Chinese writer came out (every time I forget his name - if I’m not mistaken, Liu Qixin) - about the world with three suns ... In it he tells what it is like to live in an unknown universe in the neighborhood of millions, and maybe billions of sentient civilizations, and even in conditions when they are all afraid of each other.

Let's say we met, talked and pretty quickly realized that we could be friends.

But if you take another civilization, possibly living in another galaxy, then it will be extremely difficult to communicate.

If we physically meet with them, then, I think, much in each other will be incomprehensible to us, and we will have to seriously concern ourselves with issues of our own safety.

Perhaps the aliens will consider striking first, so if we don't meet them, we are in luck.

- You write wonderful science fiction novels.

So "Flock" and "Tyranny of the Butterfly" paint a frightening picture of the future.

- Yes, but for entertainment purposes.

Science fiction isn't always scary.

And my question is, is it just for fun?

Is human fear a necessary part of something entertaining?

“We are by nature scary creatures.

- That is, which are scary?

- Yes.

We ourselves are always in a state of fear and because of this we try to direct it to others, that is, we want to be frightening.

And by nature we run away, we panic.

Panic is what helped us survive.

We are afraid of many things, yes.

- If you choose between the statements: “People are looking into the future with excitement and interest” and “People are looking into the future, rather, with fear,” which one will you choose?

- At the moment they are very afraid of the future.

In general, it always depends on the time in which we live.

In the immediate aftermath of World War II, there was a threat from the Cold War - everyone was afraid of atomic bombs. But when we began to gradually overcome this, when the Cuban missile crisis passed and nothing happened, and then the Russians and Americans began to talk to each other, optimism began to grow. Suddenly we saw Star Wars, then the movie Alien, very positive works by Steven Spielberg who said, “No, they will be peaceful. A glorious future awaits us because we are now living in a technological age. " Humanity looked into the future with great optimism.

These days, as far as I can see, we are afraid of almost everything.

Wherever you live in the world, you see populism, new leaders who present simple answers to people without proper education, people full of fears, people who do not really understand how the world develops, do not understand new technologies such as artificial intelligence and are just afraid of losing their job.

You see the climate crisis resulting in an influx of migrants.

They originally came for political reasons, but in the near future, a lot of people are likely to be looking for more suitable locations due to climate change.

There are many things that cause great fear in people.

And they dream of returning to a past that has never existed, except in the promises of populist leaders.

And these days, trying to talk to people about hope, optimism and useful technologies, I always come across rejection, almost reflexive: "No, everything is bad."

In general, you need to do something about this.

• Shot from the movie "Arrival"

• © kinopoisk.ru

- Let's talk about what people will be like on Earth in 20, 30, 50 years. Look at the Internet, which includes everything - take, for example, social networks.

Our habits have completely changed: we no longer take taxis and do not go shopping.

Even dating and sex have become easier online than in real life.

- I know those who are still doing this in real life.

- Yes, but more and more ... And it scares me, because I belong to the generation that was born when there was no Internet in everyday life.

But now I look at the younger generation, and I no longer see such needs ... And I have a feeling that the Internet is completely changing what we are as human beings.

Therefore, I want to ask you (after all, as a science fiction writer, you predict the future in your own way): what kind of people will we be in 20, 30, 50 years?

- There is nothing definite here.

We have constantly been and will be in a state of change.

There are no such final points when one can say: "Everything, now we are perfect" or "Everything, we have lost our irrevocably."

I am old enough to remember life without the Internet and mobile phones. And we can compare and say: "It was better then." But children who have grown up with the Internet and mobile communications do not know what it was like without these technologies, and do not miss the old days. Yes, and in childhood we were accustomed to, say, cars, and we cannot compare them with horse-drawn carriages. Probably, at the dawn of the automotive industry, journalists asked people: "What do you think about these innovations?" And in 1910 one could hear from journalists: “I hate these cars! I am sure they will disappear very soon, because they are hopeless. " And to the question "why?" - the answer: "Because a machine cannot treat me with the same love as an animal," that is, a horse.

I believe that we should not have nostalgia, longing for the past.

Never.

We need to appreciate new technologies, because thanks to them, the world in which we live has become a better place.

He's better, say, medically.

Technology has changed the world in such a way that while poverty and injustice are still there, in a sense, we see that people are more connected than ever before.

And this opens up opportunities for us to hear each other, to provide assistance wherever we are.

So I am optimistic about technology.

In general, the problem is this: we, as a species, are able to develop and create technologies that we will use in 50 or a hundred years, and all these technologies will fit perfectly into the picture of the future.

But people cannot change their way of thinking so as to imagine how they will think, feel and what they will need in 50 years.

Our scientific and technological progress always outstrips the ability to feel.

“But this is the key point in terms of everything that has to do with technology and virtual reality.

The more we immerse ourselves in this in life (which is inevitable), the more we lose the most basic, human - let's say, sensations, tactile perception.

- I think no.

We've always had to be careful about new technologies.

Progress in this area can take a right or wrong course.

Always like this.

If you are at the forefront, then both are possible.

For the most part, people move in both directions.

And we always need to make sure that development goes right, especially now, with artificial intelligence.

But at the same time, we remain human.

We sit here and talk to each other - and not on Skype, but sitting in the same room.

You are asking smart questions, and I hope I have smart answers.

So we are not lost to the future.

• © RT

- Do you know what the theory of the future of journalism says?

The most expensive thing in it will be personal human contact.

- Exactly.

- Because everything else will be done online and virtually.

But this format will become very expensive in the future.

- You know, artificial intelligence is nothing more than analyzing large amounts of data.

In the past (and even today), if you, as a journalist, need to write material on a specific topic - say, about the events in Syria or about the situation elsewhere - you had to re-read a lot in order to trace the patterns, mark the previous events and filter out relevant information.

Of course, this is very expensive.

Artificial intelligence can help here.

Of course, he is no better than you as a journalist.

No, as a journalist, you still surpass him.

It just helps you focus on what matters most.

On the fact that we are now near.

On the fact that we sit and talk in a human way.

- You write about how artificial intelligence plays games with people.

Such a story is a popular scenario of the future, in which artificial intelligence takes control of humanity.

AI understands that it is smarter, can develop its own thought and artificial intuition, and that people are simply not needed.

Is there a distant possibility of this in the future?

- There are half a dozen serious scenarios for the development of artificial intelligence.

What I wrote about is only one of them, in my deep conviction, possible, since there is one important detail about it.

At the moment, there is only more or less specialized artificial intelligence. This means that the systems can play chess, or go, or drive a robot car, or analyze medical data and help us. All this, of course, is amazing. But such an artificial mind, despite the fact that it is better than any doctor at recognizing cancer cells, is not able to grasp the difference between a car and a dog. So he really does not pose a danger. There is no need to be afraid that such an intellect would want to take power from humanity.

In my case, it was about a powerful artificial intelligence that possesses an integral meaningful picture of the Universe and all its digitized data and is able to compare them in order to give the world complex answers.

As long as this artificial intelligence has no consciousness, it has no will.

This does not mean that he cannot destroy us as a result of some mistake.

But he has no ill will.

However, there is no good.

He has no idea of ​​his own existence.

But one day the day will come when the machine will gain consciousness.

I am convinced that this will happen, this must happen.

Because, as science says, in order to have consciousness, we need a body and cells of the sensory system through which we contact the outside world.

And the result of this exchange is that we not only exist in the world, but also form a picture of our being in this world.

We look at ourselves.

This is consciousness.

If the machine gains consciousness, it means that it already has character, it has life.

She already has a will.

Therefore, we need to make sure that this machine continues to cooperate with us in a timely manner, at a fairly early stage.

See RTD for the full interview.