Shan Jixiang, the dean of the "net celebrity": make up for "historical regrets"
Shan Jixiang left the Forbidden City, but did not really leave the Forbidden City.
After he ceased to be the president of the Palace Museum, Shan Jixiang's new status is the director of the Academic Committee of the Palace Museum.
Without the interruption of business work, he has more energy to devote more energy to the protection research and value dissemination of cultural relics and cultural heritage.
Recently, he is leading the team to prepare the second season of "A Thousand Miles Walk Alone".
The place where the team worked was a building in the Republic of China near the roots of Donghuangcheng. This is now the "Cultural Dongcheng" living room. "Cultural relics can only be better protected when they are used." Shan Jixiang has always believed this way.
More specifically, the living room is inside the Huangchenggen Relics Park, which is the largest street-center park in Beijing.
On the west side of the park, just across the street is the World Heritage Grand Canal Clarification Lower Gate Site.
This canal with the longest mileage and the largest project in the world meets the Silk Road to the west at Luoyang and connects to the Maritime Silk Road to the east. Quanzhou, one of the starting points of the "Sea Silk", has just been listed as a World Heritage Site. Directory.
On August 6th, at the Beijing section of the Universiade, Shan Jixiang, who claimed to be a "net celebrity", started talking about these two "destined" cultural heritages and led reporters to look back at China's "application for heritage".
Why do you want to apply for a heritage?
How should we view the rise and fall of the “Focus on World Heritage”?
Why let the cultural relics "live"?
Shan Jixiang believes that the protection of cultural heritage should not only "make up for historical regrets", but also allow cultural heritage to "walk into society with dignity" and benefit the general public.
Looking back on China’s application for heritage sites, we must rely on ourselves to be "strong or not"
Beijing News: Since China joined the "Convention for the Protection of the World Cultural and Natural Heritage" in 1985, what changes have been made in China's application for heritage?
Shan Jixiang: In 1985, China did not have a World Heritage Site.
In the early 1980s, Professor Hou Renzhi of Peking University and others visited abroad to learn about the importance of world heritage protection and called on China to promote heritage protection.
From the Great Wall, the Forbidden City to the Hani terraces, and the inscription on the Silk Road, world heritage continues to impact and change our past understanding of cultural relics, bringing us new insights into the question of "what is cultural heritage".
In the past, the protection of cultural relics focused on "points" and "surfaces", such as a tower or a group of buildings. Today's cultural heritage protection also needs to protect linear cultural heritage, such as the Grand Canal and the Silk Road; in the past, it focused on static ancient sites. And the ancient tombs, now we must protect the living and dynamic historical districts, like the business district of Qianmen; in the past, we protected the ancient buildings, and today we must also protect the contemporary buildings, such as the Great Hall of the People, the National Museum, and the Chairman Mao Memorial Hall. The buildings after the founding of New China are all changes in cultural heritage protection over the years.
Since 2006, we have introduced guiding documents for the protection of cultural landscapes, cultural routes, canal heritage and other heritage protections. China’s cultural heritage is more complete. With China’s third immovable cultural relics census, a large number of vernacular buildings, industries, etc. The legacy is included.
It can be said that China has followed up quickly, absorbing the experience of different countries and the suggestions of international organizations, and communicating in a timely manner to find ways to suit the characteristics of China's cultural heritage and breakthroughs.
Beijing News: Our country started late in applying for heritage, but the results have been remarkable. Recently, the Great Wall was rated as a model case of World Heritage Protection and Management.
Has my country entered a new stage of contributing Chinese methods to the world?
Shan Jixiang: China is moving from a major cultural heritage country to a cultural heritage power country, but whether it is strong or not depends on our efforts.
Of course, we still have many imperfections, and we need to continue to communicate with international organizations to introduce advanced concepts.
But after all, we have decades of accumulated experience, progress in the concept of sustainable development, and a national consensus on cultural heritage protection. Therefore, we are confident that cultural heritage protection will go to the world.
Among them, it is very important to tell the Chinese story well, because the right to speak is not in our hands. Are the interpretations formulated by many conventions correct?
Does it conform to the reality of China and other countries in the world?
Not necessarily.
Therefore, we have to come up with more exemplary examples of protecting the world's cultural heritage, make more contributions to the field of international cultural heritage protection, and win our voice.
Applying for the heritage is not equal to the great development of tourism, but also to "correct the regrets in history"
The Beijing News: Lijiang’s successful application for heritage in 1997 has spurred the rapid development of the local tourism industry and triggered a domestic “craze for heritage applications”.
In recent years, there has been a drop in the "Fever of Application for Heritage". How do you view this change?
Shan Jixiang: Indeed, after Lijiang and Pingyao’s successful applications, a powerful and controversial "craze" broke out.
In this process, we must correct the regrets in history. After all, after large-scale urban construction, if everyone can make sufficient preparations for the inscription, a large number of cultural heritage resources will be protected and even rescued. Protection, this is positive.
On the other hand, we must clarify to people that the success of the application is not the end, but a new starting point.
The purpose of applying for World Heritage is not only to develop tourism, it is a comprehensive benefit.
Full attention should be paid to the sustainability of economic and social development.
It does not mean that if the declaration is successful, you will have to develop tourism.
After the successful application of the West Lake, the first action was not to mobilize tourism on a large scale, but to set up a World Cultural Heritage Monitoring Center. This is a good example.
When you successfully declare your heritage, you have become a world cultural heritage that has attracted much attention, and you have to assume the responsibility of protection.
It is necessary to correct some misconceptions and not blindly declare. What is more important than quantity is to protect the quality and value of these cultural heritages.
The Beijing News: Why do we say "A lot of things we do now are to make up for some regrets in the past"?
Shan Jixiang: During the accelerated period of construction in each city, there will be more or less regrets. When people's awareness improves and the concept of sustainable development is accepted by more people, the past regrets can be made up today.
I have witnessed many unexpected "miracles" over the years. For example, the Tiantan Hospital can be moved to Fengtai; more than 50 simple buildings can be demolished and the green space can be restored within two years; the Jishuitan Hospital, which affects the landscape of "Yindingguan Mountain", has been demolished.
These are to correct the unreasonable problems in the urban construction in the past, and try to restore the historical and cultural landscape in the city.
Beijing News: Is regret inevitable?
From leaving regrets to making up for them, is this an inevitable and impossible process?
Shan Jixiang: Large-scale urban construction will have an impact on the protection of cultural heritage, even a strong impact, but the intensity is different.
China's urbanization process is the fastest, largest and most intense in the world. The call for cultural relics protection has always been in conflict with the pace of urban construction. We have left some regrets, but we have also achieved conservation results.
In this process, if people of insight continue to call on the country to improve its system and policies, these impacts and damage can be reversed and contained to a large extent.
It depends on the society's overall understanding of cultural heritage protection and the level of government's grasp of urban construction to the extent to which it can avoid affecting the city's traditional culture and historical features.
The criteria for judging a modern city must not only include high-rise buildings, overpasses, and motor vehicles, but also to maintain the living environment.
The archaeological site can be turned into an archaeological site park and the historical river can be reproduced in the center of the city. People will feel the cordiality of the city more and the quality of life will continue to improve.
Let people "walk in" and make cultural relics "live"
Beijing News: You have fully promoted the construction of archaeological sites into archaeological sites parks. Where did this concept come from?
Shan Jixiang: The concept of archaeological site park started in Beijing, and there was the Yuanmingyuan site park at first.
When this concept was expanded and implemented throughout the country, it encountered great resistance.
Many people disagree, thinking that archaeology and parks cannot be in the same concept.
Archaeology is a scientific research work, and the park is a place for people to relax and entertain. The two concepts should be put together. How else to do archaeological work?
But I think that the archaeological site park not only does not hinder protection, but promotes protection.
People will not cherish the appearance of the archaeological site if they don’t understand it. The phenomenon of building sheds on them, continuous destruction and even looting will occur.
After the archaeological excavation of the Daming Palace site in Xi'an began, a site museum was built semi-underground, and an archaeological exploration center was built for citizens and tourists.
During the construction of the Archaeological Site Park, Daming Palace became one of the heritage sites on the World Cultural Heritage Silk Road in 2014.
Through such examples, experts realized that archaeological sites can become parks.
People feel the significance of archaeological sites to real life. Only when they have dignity can they become a positive force to promote social development and benefit more people; people enjoy the quality of life brought by cultural heritage, and they have the motivation to participate in cultural heritage protection In the end, a virtuous circle is formed.
Beijing News: The "activation of cultural relics" in the Forbidden City has received a lot of attention in recent years. What experience can you share?
Shan Jixiang: Cultural heritage is the wealth of society and public. Don't close them in museums, because it is the public that creates cultural heritage.
In fact, cultural heritage has entered the social life of thousands of households, and the streets where people live and where they work may be objects to be protected.
Therefore, cultural heritage protection can no longer be a patent of the government and cultural relics departments, but a cause that millions of people should be able to participate in.
We must give the ordinary people more rights to know, participate, monitor, and benefit from cultural heritage protection, so that ordinary people can absorb wisdom and nutrition from cultural heritage.
When I first came to work in the Palace Museum, the collections in the warehouse were piled up there, giving off a musty smell.
We walked for five months, after walking around 9371 houses in the Forbidden City, we were determined to expand the opening.
Only when the cultural relics are displayed in front of the public will they be radiant.
If piled up in the warehouse, people will not have the right to know and the right to supervise.
For example, Emperor Qianlong’s birth mother, Empress Dowager Chongqing, lived in the Shoukang Palace for 42 years. We repaired it. According to historical data, we extracted relevant furniture, utensils, and stationery from various warehouses and displayed them in their original state to restore the original. scene.
Let a large number of cultural relics remain in people's field of vision, and people can feel that these cultural relics and history are talking, which is better than the condition of preservation in the warehouse.
General Secretary Xi Jinping said, "Let the cultural relics collected in the museum, the heritage displayed on the vast land, and the words written in the ancient books all live." To live is to let it enter the society in a healthy and dignified manner.
We have seen that if the repaired wooden structure is locked up, it will decay faster.
But after repairing it and giving it new functions, such as displaying it in an exhibition hall for people to watch, it is healthier.
He has been associated with cultural heritage since he was a child, and the two "idols" have the greatest influence on him
The Beijing News: Why did you choose the career path of cultural relics and cultural heritage protection?
What is the source of interest?
Shan Jixiang: My father is from Nanjing and studied literature.
He knows a lot about ancient poetry and traditional culture, and most of the books in our family are about this aspect.
Sometimes on Sundays, my father would lead me around. Almost all the places I visited became World Heritage sites, such as the Great Wall, Temple of Heaven, and Forbidden City. Visiting these cultural heritage sites may have made me more interested in historical buildings since I was a child.
Later, I studied for an undergraduate degree in Japan and studied architecture. When choosing a major, I chose the protection of historical and cultural blocks in urban planning. The final thesis was also on this topic.
After returning to China, when I worked in the urban planning department of Beijing, I began to pay attention to Beijing’s historic districts. I have been formulating plans for the preservation of historic districts. 25 historical and cultural preservation areas have been delineated in Beijing. The relationship between this work and the protection of cultural relics and historic sites It was very close, and then it was natural to follow this path.
Beijing News: Many people call you "Internet celebrity dean", how do you think about this title?
Many people regard you as an idol, who is your idol?
Shan Jixiang: I am not a "net celebrity", I am a "net celebrity" because I haven't chatted with everyone on the Internet, and I was "an internet celebrity" when I didn't know it.
In terms of professionalism, there are two people who have the greatest influence on me. One is Mr. Wu Liangyong and the other is Mr. Zhang Zhongpei. They are the two teachers who have the greatest influence on my life.
My doctoral supervisor, Mr. Wu Liangyong, has given me face-to-face guidance for more than 30 years.
I studied with him for a PhD for four and a half years, and he changed my attitude towards academics and knowledge.
Now I can't hold it at all. If I don't read some books or write some things every day, I feel empty.
Mr. Wu is an expert in the four fields of architecture, urban planning, cultural heritage protection and museums. He has a lot of books, and the theory of human settlements has a great influence on me.
He is about to be 100 years old and he is still working hard. He is a beacon in my life.
Mr. Zhang Zhongpei, the fourth dean of the Palace Museum, I entered the protection of cultural heritage from the field of urban planning, and there would be conflicts with people in the field of cultural heritage.
At that time, Mr. Zhang Zhongpei was the chairman of the Chinese Archaeological Society and a master-level expert. He has deep attainments in the field of cultural heritage.
For more than 20 years, I always go to Mr. Zhang Zhongpei's house every time I encounter a problem. When I get to his house, he must have made the tea and waited for me.
He will make an outline of what he is going to talk about, no less than two hours at a time, just like a doctoral tutor teaching, little by little guidance.
When I went to the head of the State Administration of Cultural Heritage, he and several experts told me that the most important things are four things: first, to find out the heritage of cultural heritage resources; second, to pay attention to the construction of the legal system for the protection of cultural relics; Third, we must do a good job in scientific and technological support and personnel training; fourth, we must crack down on cultural relic crimes.
These four items have become the four most important things in the next ten years. People say that they have nailed four pillars for the protection of cultural heritage.
Beijing News reporter Jiang Huizi, intern Xu Lindi, photographer Tao Ran