Following the lesson of

Xavier Pericay

in his last, short and timely essay, where he remembers that journalism must tell what it knows and not what it imagines or wants, I will explain what I saw, heard and felt in my first interview with

Oriol Junqueras

, a character determining factor in the collapse of

Mariano Rajoy

and to which

Pedro Sánchez

has attached his political project.

It took place in June 2009, when the formula of the

process

was still subject to alchemical mixtures in the convergent laboratory, the

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